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  • Turbo Charged Cruiser!?

    Looks like Honda will be putting a turbo on their VTX 1800. It seems like there is a good argument to turbo charge a big V-Twin.

    Honda Turbo
    Marty 3005

    Moto Guzzi Stelvio & BMW G650GS

  • #2
    Originally posted by zadok@Jan 31 2006, 07:54 AM
    It seems like there is a good argument to turbo charge a big V-Twin.
    [snapback]221045[/snapback]
    There is a good arguement to turbocharge any engine on the planet and have a result that puts a smile on your dial , be it 4 stroke (petrol & diesel) , 2 stroke (petrol & diesel) or rotary.

    The thing is , total effeciency . That writer says "Larger displacement is also a big advantage, as the higher volume of exhaust gas produced by a larger motor will spool the turbo up quicker (at a lower RPM)" , while this can be true , its also its biggest drawback, because a V twin doesnt fire often, and the exhaust gas tract is way too long from the backside of one, around , and meet the other where the turbo meets .... too long. Sionce turbos work on exhaust gas, AND heat (expandable gas) , you will loose a LOT of heat on a V twin and because it doesnt pulse often enough (only once every 180deg) you will loose a lot in effeciency.

    Having said that, i would turbocharge a straight 4 anyday over a twin. Short, neat headers that hold the heat and spool the turbo. The more you spool , the larger turbo you can go , means it will be more effecient in its compressor maps and your total power output will be much better.

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    • #3
      ...and on the seventh day God said "Let there be light!", and Chuck Norris said "say please!"

      Comment


      • #4
        As usual Saf comes through with the gold.

        That writer says "Larger displacement is also a big advantage, as the higher volume of exhaust gas produced by a larger motor will spool the turbo up quicker (at a lower RPM)"
        This also has a lot to do with turbocharger sizing and design. So basically its about selecting a turbo sizing that will suit the amount of exhaust flow the engine is producing, look at some of the kei cars in Japan, they are only running 660cc engines or so but most of them are turbocharged from the factory and with a few mods decent power is available. Originally the biggest problem with turbo's was the lag involved, however these days with the efficiency that has been produced from design improvements (ball bearing cores, twin scroll inlets, compressor shape, ceramic coatings, VNT etc) inertia has been reduced and therefore spool times have decreased.

        So basically as Saf has said turbo's can suit any engine, its just about selection really. The other problem with a bike is space. Turbo's require extra plumbing (especially if an intercooler is involved) and other ancillaries to have the thing up and running, most modern sports bikes are cramped as it is so fitting a turbo requires patience and a lot of fiddling. This is why it is probably more likely that motorcycle manufacturers are going to look at turbocharging cruisers over their sports bike, space is not so much of a premium on something that is designed for comfort.


        "At the start of the season, you can’t win the championship in the first round, but you can lose it.” - Travis Pastrana

        "If your mind can conceive it then
        your hands can achieve it"- Nigel Petrie (Engineeredtoslide.com)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by saf@Jan 31 2006, 09:10 AM
          There is a good arguement to turbocharge any engine on the planet and have a result that puts a smile on your dial , be it 4 stroke (petrol & diesel) , 2 stroke (petrol & diesel) or rotary.
          [snapback]221060[/snapback]
          off topic but, can you actually turbocharge a 2 stroke ?

          wouldnt that stuff around with the resonation and what not ?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by pkunk@Jan 31 2006, 11:47 AM
            off topic but, can you actually turbocharge a 2 stroke ?

            wouldnt that stuff around with the resonation and what not ?
            [snapback]221124[/snapback]
            Yes you can and they commonly rip your arms off ..... until they blow up

            Seriously tho , yes you can. Witha 2 stroke it runs a expansion chamber , this is basically a reversion cone that sends a wave (sonic and pressure) back at the exhaust port to control its port timing. If you remove this , you remove the engiens ability to control its port timing .... and it will still run no probs at all, as chainsaws , whippper snippers and lawnmowers etc that have a muffler on the exhaust port both for room , and noise issues.

            But if you strap a turbo to it .... you loose something , but gain 5x that back straight away .... so your not behind at all .

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            • #7
              I was under the impression that with the exhast pulse differences in a v twin configeration that turbo charging is possible but requires a pulse matched header system for the turbo charger and still it is difficult to work out pulsing fluctuations is this true i was told this previously buy a mates uncle when he was looking at turbocharging his harley drag bike but instead opted for a nitro methane high comp big bore engine and he stated to me this is why u dont see many turbo harleys or v twins yet two issues ago in RAPID they have an SandR pro turbo harley is there any truth to this information as it seems to me the pulsing would only occur at idle and or low rpm?

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              • #8
                how small a turbo would be required for a cbr250rr? imagine you could sell a few kits. lol
                No amount of genius can overcome a preoccupation to detail.



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                • #9
                  Originally posted by amtrapid@Jan 31 2006, 01:00 PM
                  I was under the impression that with the exhast pulse differences in a v twin configeration that turbo charging is possible but requires a  pulse matched header system for the turbo charger and still it is difficult to work out pulsing fluctuations is this true i was told this previously buy a mates uncle when he was looking at turbocharging his harley drag bike but instead opted for a nitro methane high comp big bore engine and he stated to me this is why u dont see many turbo harleys or v twins yet two issues ago in RAPID they have an SandR pro turbo harley is there any truth to this information as it seems to me the pulsing would only occur at idle and or low rpm?
                  [snapback]221166[/snapback]
                  Longest sentence ever.
                  Work Buy Consume Die

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sathid@Jan 31 2006, 01:02 PM
                    how small a turbo would be required for a cbr250rr? imagine you could sell a few kits. lol
                    [snapback]221168[/snapback]

                    there was a guy over east who turbed his yamaha zeal 250 , made 89hp at rear wheel

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                    • #11
                      wow! thats nuts! lol


                      I'm aiming for a measly 80hp at the wheel with my N.A. 350cc...
                      No amount of genius can overcome a preoccupation to detail.



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by amtrapid@Jan 31 2006, 01:00 PM
                        I was under the impression that with the exhast pulse differences in a v twin configeration that turbo charging is possible but requires a  pulse matched header system for the turbo charger and still it is difficult to work out pulsing fluctuations is this true i was told this previously
                        [snapback]221166[/snapback]
                        Tuned length headers are BS for the most part. Turbo placement is far far more importnant than equal length headers. In 85 or so , Reno went out and made equal length headers for thier 1.5L 1500hp F1 engines, and they gaines 30 something HP. That sounds impressive if your making 200hp .... but far form impressive when your makeing 1500 , not to mention it heated up the suspension gear, hence why they went back to non equal headers.

                        A turbo engine isnt like a N/A where it scavenges in a collector, because from piston top to turbine bucket , its under a great deal of pressure.

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                        • #13
                          There is a guy in the states doing bolt on turbo's for rocket 3's and vrods. They also disconnect the Triumphs torque limiter at the same time.

                          Triumph Rocket 3 Turbo
                          You start with a Triumph Rocket 3, all 2294cc and 132 rear wheel horsepower of it, add one turbo from Turbo Connection and what do you get? Well, from the looks of it, one helluva fast and fun street machine. The iBoost turbo unit with 8 pounds of boost produces 203hp and 215 foot pounds of twist. Price of the kit is $5395. The same price will get you the same type of kit for a Harley Davidson V-Rod which produces 170hp.

                          What’s really nice about these kits is the power is always there, no buttons to push or bottles to fill, just roll on the throttle (carefully!) and grin. I’ve never been a nitrous fan, I like a bit of mechanical wizardry that does the work. Of course, you get some computer mods with the kit, too, so everything does what it’s supposed to. The turbo is small and fits on the bike without major remodeling. On the Triumph, the turbo is almost hidden, on the V-Rod it’s out for the world to see but it’s a clean installation and looks good.

                          via August ‘05 Motorcyclist magazine
                          <div align="center">
                          "Yes, so we will return to racing - but we must win. You can’t be second with MV. It’s impossible to be second with MV Agusta."Castiglioni</div>

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                          • #14
                            Anyone seen the latest 2Wheels? ( bolt on blower kit for hogs from VeeTwo)

                            As an EX diesel fitter im a big fan of turbos and a small fan of blowers, but the lag with a turbo is the big issue on a bike. Screw type blowers rock. And they fit them to 2 smokes too. (big donks, dunno bout bikes)

                            My 2c
                            Remember....Your only young once.....

                            But you can be immature for as long as you bloody well like!

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                            • #15
                              How about a turbo 4-cyl-250cc? Would be cheap enough to run around town, and still put down that 80-100HP on the rear wheel (all things being equal)

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