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  • #16
    Originally posted by dwillia View Post
    I just got my R learners

    It would be great for me to be able to get time on a R bike without having to have a shadow/instructor - daylight hours, 60km/hr (HA!) speed limited

    if I haven't fallen off my MT07 in 12 months I'm probably not going to fall off an MT09

    or am I

    BUM BUM BAAAAAAM!
    You're not supposed to say it out loud, it summons the skid demon.

    Now you're going to have to perform an exorcism on your new bike before you can ride it.
    Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

    when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

    Comment


    • #17
      I don't have a new bike yet .... does that let me off the hook?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by dwillia View Post
        I don't have a new bike yet .... does that let me off the hook?
        Yeah all good crash away
        #1 Gold Ticket Holder for the Barfridge Fan Club
        Originally posted by Phildo
        Noted. We'll check back on that one in three years
        Originally posted by filbert
        i'll pretend you didn't know she was 13

        98 BADASS TITANIUM BLACKBIRD - Past bikes 1982 XS250 Yamaha & 1983 CB750F with 900 motor
        Ozblackbird.net Administrator

        Comment


        • #19
          Well the obvious question I have is why can't I be shadowed by someone driving a car. They offer far greater protection and have the exact same ability to effect the way that I ride a motorcycle, which is precisely none! If for whatever reason I fell from my bike a car can better prevent the traffic behind me from running over me. A car has a louder horn if a driver in an adjacent lane doesn't see me and comes across. If i am riding at night then the lights on a car behind me assist my vision and protect my rear. No downsides really. The point I am making here essentially is that a shadow rider really adds no value and only serves as a restriction on the road time and practice you can get. Motorcycle should be regulated at an instructor level, that is a government certified instructor, working privately at his own business. THE MRAWA should get together and decide a uniform set of skills which are taught in a uniform manner across the board at instructor level that will give the rider the basics to ride safely on the road. This package could be delivered in 7 or so lessons, 5 practical and 2 or even three theory, and then hand the rider their L's and leave them alone. don't restrict their road time to the kindness of strangers. If I either didn't want to ride with someone or didn't have friends with access to MC's then my bike is essentially a very expensive paper weight that sits in my garage. I obey the laws and pay my taxes and like everyone else and I am just as entitled to make reasonable use of MY private property as anyone else does. Also the massive downside is the lack of practice, I have to wait on someone. If you just taught the basics across the board, uniformly, then the rider can have an unlimited amount of practice within the means of their resources. Also how is the logic of waiting to for HPT for six months sane in any way at all. Seems to me like that's the first thing you should do before they even hand you a permit. Hazards on the road aren't going to wait 6 months until I can ride before they present themselves. I got a motorcycle to enhance and enjoy my freedom and I accept that when I get on a MC, similar to a car I am accepting a certain amount of risk, whether it be more or less. The greatest thing about LAMS in my opinion is that they restrict the size of the bike you can ride. This measure alone probably saved thousands of lives, good on em. Otherwise though!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ShadowedRider View Post
            Well the obvious question I have is why can't I be shadowed by someone driving a car. They offer far greater protection and have the exact same ability to effect the way that I ride a motorcycle, which is precisely none! If for whatever reason I fell from my bike a car can better prevent the traffic behind me from running over me. A car has a louder horn if a driver in an adjacent lane doesn't see me and comes across. If i am riding at night then the lights on a car behind me assist my vision and protect my rear. No downsides really. The point I am making here essentially is that a shadow rider really adds no value and only serves as a restriction on the road time and practice you can get. Motorcycle should be regulated at an instructor level, that is a government certified instructor, working privately at his own business. THE MRAWA should get together and decide a uniform set of skills which are taught in a uniform manner across the board at instructor level that will give the rider the basics to ride safely on the road. This package could be delivered in 7 or so lessons, 5 practical and 2 or even three theory, and then hand the rider their L's and leave them alone. don't restrict their road time to the kindness of strangers. If I either didn't want to ride with someone or didn't have friends with access to MC's then my bike is essentially a very expensive paper weight that sits in my garage. I obey the laws and pay my taxes and like everyone else and I am just as entitled to make reasonable use of MY private property as anyone else does. Also the massive downside is the lack of practice, I have to wait on someone. If you just taught the basics across the board, uniformly, then the rider can have an unlimited amount of practice within the means of their resources. Also how is the logic of waiting to for HPT for six months sane in any way at all. Seems to me like that's the first thing you should do before they even hand you a permit. Hazards on the road aren't going to wait 6 months until I can ride before they present themselves. I got a motorcycle to enhance and enjoy my freedom and I accept that when I get on a MC, similar to a car I am accepting a certain amount of risk, whether it be more or less. The greatest thing about LAMS in my opinion is that they restrict the size of the bike you can ride. This measure alone probably saved thousands of lives, good on em. Otherwise though!
            Take a drive on any of the roads guys and girls ride in this state take note of the crosses the flowers and the notes left by friends theres plenty of them......

            These people are no longer with us do you want to join them or will you shut up quit your whinging and learn like the rest of us had too!

            You are coming across as an entitled fools fool my friend!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ShadowedRider View Post
              Well the obvious question I have is why can't I be shadowed by someone driving a car. They offer far greater protection and have the exact same ability to effect the way that I ride a motorcycle, which is precisely none! If for whatever reason I fell from my bike a car can better prevent the traffic behind me from running over me. A car has a louder horn if a driver in an adjacent lane doesn't see me and comes across. If i am riding at night then the lights on a car behind me assist my vision and protect my rear. No downsides really.

              The point I am making here essentially is that a shadow rider really adds no value and only serves as a restriction on the road time and practice you can get. Motorcycle should be regulated at an instructor level, that is a government certified instructor, working privately at his own business. THE MRAWA should get together and decide a uniform set of skills which are taught in a uniform manner across the board at instructor level that will give the rider the basics to ride safely on the road. This package could be delivered in 7 or so lessons, 5 practical and 2 or even three theory, and then hand the rider their L's and leave them alone. don't restrict their road time to the kindness of strangers.

              If I either didn't want to ride with someone or didn't have friends with access to MC's then my bike is essentially a very expensive paper weight that sits in my garage. I obey the laws and pay my taxes and like everyone else and I am just as entitled to make reasonable use of MY private property as anyone else does. Also the massive downside is the lack of practice, I have to wait on someone. If you just taught the basics across the board, uniformly, then the rider can have an unlimited amount of practice within the means of their resources.

              Also how is the logic of waiting to for HPT for six months sane in any way at all. Seems to me like that's the first thing you should do before they even hand you a permit. Hazards on the road aren't going to wait 6 months until I can ride before they present themselves. I got a motorcycle to enhance and enjoy my freedom and I accept that when I get on a MC, similar to a car I am accepting a certain amount of risk, whether it be more or less. The greatest thing about LAMS in my opinion is that they restrict the size of the bike you can ride. This measure alone probably saved thousands of lives, good on em. Otherwise though!

              A couple things

              #1 Paragraphs, they make it much easier to read long posts rather than it just being a huge clump of words on a screen

              #2 While there may be some small advantages as you said with a car shadowing they are greatly outweighed by the disadvantages

              A 2nd bike can pull over alongside a learner almost anywhere which a car cannot do without obstructing traffic and causing a danger to themselves and others.
              You can communicate easily using hand signals between bikes even if you can't hear the other rider, you can't do that safely in most cars if at all

              A louder horn is pretty moot as most cars are so soundproof they are pretty much useless anyway and you can't be as close to being alongside the learner as you can be on a bike and in fact a car shadowing could actually make it more dangerous as it would obscure a MC from anyone overtaking the car and pulling in front until the last seconds

              As a learner I'd hate having a car riding my arse with it's lights overpowering my mirrors rather than a MC and it's one headlight being offset to one side I'm hoping you aren't advocating a MC learner being shadowed by someone without a MC licence in said car? If so that is pointless as riding a MC is completely different to being in a car

              A shadow absolutely is an advantage as it gives you time on the road amongst other road users while being watched by a person that "you hope" has much much better experience given the time the shadow has had to have their licence While having a professional instructor for some things can be an advantage, someone like MRAWA is a racing organisation setup AFAIK to teach people how to ride a MC on a track not how to learn to ride a MC on the road and comply with road rules and ride to suit dangers on the roads

              5 or so lessons? I'm assuming you mean all day coaching lessons "on the road" as opposed to 5 1 hour lessons on a track? While that would start to get close to being a good start to getting experience it would also be very expensive compared to having a friend etc shadow you around for fuel/food/ company etc

              Then you leave them alone on the road to make mistakes which in car may end up with a small accident and some bodywork could end up with a L rider dead
              Maybe there is some reason to think it would be an idea when going for your R class I reckon doing that for RE is asking for more dead riders

              If you can afford a bike and gear then you should be able to afford lessons with an instructor if you don't have friends to shadow you, it's how I got my MC licence
              Yes it took longer and cost more but that was how it was

              I'll definitely agree regarding the HPT, it needs to be done as soon as getting your L's and the AGAIN before getting on the road
              #1 Gold Ticket Holder for the Barfridge Fan Club
              Originally posted by Phildo
              Noted. We'll check back on that one in three years
              Originally posted by filbert
              i'll pretend you didn't know she was 13

              98 BADASS TITANIUM BLACKBIRD - Past bikes 1982 XS250 Yamaha & 1983 CB750F with 900 motor
              Ozblackbird.net Administrator

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Para045 View Post


                A couple things

                #1 Paragraphs, they make it much easier to read long posts rather than it just being a huge clump of words on a screen

                #2 While there may be some small advantages as you said with a car shadowing they are greatly outweighed by the disadvantages

                A 2nd bike can pull over alongside a learner almost anywhere which a car cannot do without obstructing traffic and causing a danger to themselves and others.
                You can communicate easily using hand signals between bikes even if you can't hear the other rider, you can't do that safely in most cars if at all

                A louder horn is pretty moot as most cars are so soundproof they are pretty much useless anyway and you can't be as close to being alongside the learner as you can be on a bike and in fact a car shadowing could actually make it more dangerous as it would obscure a MC from anyone overtaking the car and pulling in front until the last seconds

                As a learner I'd hate having a car riding my arse with it's lights overpowering my mirrors rather than a MC and it's one headlight being offset to one side I'm hoping you aren't advocating a MC learner being shadowed by someone without a MC licence in said car? If so that is pointless as riding a MC is completely different to being in a car

                A shadow absolutely is an advantage as it gives you time on the road amongst other road users while being watched by a person that "you hope" has much much better experience given the time the shadow has had to have their licence While having a professional instructor for some things can be an advantage, someone like MRAWA is a racing organisation setup AFAIK to teach people how to ride a MC on a track not how to learn to ride a MC on the road and comply with road rules and ride to suit dangers on the roads

                5 or so lessons? I'm assuming you mean all day coaching lessons "on the road" as opposed to 5 1 hour lessons on a track? While that would start to get close to being a good start to getting experience it would also be very expensive compared to having a friend etc shadow you around for fuel/food/ company etc

                Then you leave them alone on the road to make mistakes which in car may end up with a small accident and some bodywork could end up with a L rider dead
                Maybe there is some reason to think it would be an idea when going for your R class I reckon doing that for RE is asking for more dead riders

                If you can afford a bike and gear then you should be able to afford lessons with an instructor if you don't have friends to shadow you, it's how I got my MC licence
                Yes it took longer and cost more but that was how it was

                I'll definitely agree regarding the HPT, it needs to be done as soon as getting your L's and the AGAIN before getting on the road
                Well said mate..... as always you are on the money!

                Your old mate llbuono.

                Comment

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