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Road Safety Strategy for WA 2008 - 2020 - for comment

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  • Road Safety Strategy for WA 2008 - 2020 - for comment

    Towards Zero - Introduction

    This was circulating a while ago but I couldn't find the original thread. I started filling out the survey a few weeks ago but lost interest/got pissed off because their questions are worded so badly.

    Today, spurred on by the most recent motorcycle death I decided to finish the survey. Here is a complilation of my comments across all pages of the survey.

    Question: "Do you think the new strategy will be effective or ineffective":


    INEFFECTIVE

    Why do I say that? Because, nothing in past, present or future strategies addresses the fact that WA drivers need to be educated to drive correctly and courteously. As examples,
    1) it is rare to see vehicles keeping left on both multi-lane roads or on wide single lane roads.
    2) drivers do not know how to merge.
    3) drivers seem to be unable to keep in their own lane when making turns (ie, when turning left they swing into the right lane).
    4) drivers do not position their vehicles appropriately when approaching a turn.
    5) drivers do not allow other vehicles to merge or change lanes.
    etc. etc.

    In the words of an advanced driver training instructor from the AHG driving centre in Perth "People come to us to learn advanced driving skills - usually I find that they do not even have BASIC skills such as knowing how to turn the steering wheel correctly! They drive so poorly that I wonder how they got to AHG without having an accident." (Note to whomever is reading this: Do YOU know how to turn the steering wheel correctly? I doubt it.)

    By your own admission:

    1) "In 2006 the number of deaths increased by 25%, it is the same story for 2007"
    - so clearly all the anti-speeding strategies have failed to reduce fatalities. Why not try something different? They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and always expecting a different result.

    2) " Two thirds of WA’s road deaths and one third of our serious injuries occurred on regional and remote roads"
    - so why all the focus on reducing speeds in the metro area?

    You claim to have listened to people asking for better country roads. If so, for pity's sake DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Have you been on a back road in the country recently?! The condition of most WA B-roads is shameful.

    Finally, everyone always harps on about how motorcycle riders are 20 times more likely to be killed in a road accident, etc, etc. Given that 2/3 of those motorcyclists killed in multi-vehicle accidents are killed as a result of an error by the other vehicle driver, how about a campaign focussing on looking out for motorcycles? There hasn't been one in WA for AT LEAST 25 years. WHY NOT?!

    The vehicle improved safety idea (more airbags, stability control, etc.) is reasonable but doesn't attack the root of the problem.

    OF COURSE, if we all drove around in tanks we'd be safer. Trouble is it would foster carelessness among drivers. Already, the statistics show that SUV/4WD vehicles kill more (other) road users than other smaller vehicles. When people feel invincible they develop an "I'm alright thanks Jack" attitude. We need strategies that attack the root problems - not just mitigate the symptoms. We need to look after the safety of ALL road users - whether they be in old cars, small cars, motorcycles, scooters, etc. Safer cars won't do that.

    How about coming up with road safety suggestions that might actually make a difference? At the moment, it seems that all studies on "new" safety strategies seem to be geared to producing the answers that those who commissioned and paid for the study want to hear.

    Spock
    Advantage Motorcycle Rider Training


    PS - Whew, glad I got that off my chest. Now I just hope my missus doesn't read this. She gave me a list of things to do (real work) now that I'm sick at home with the flu. I'd better get on with it!
    Last edited by Spock; 22-11-2007, 12:59 PM.
    "Live Long and Prosper"

    Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

  • #2
    Originally posted by Spock View Post
    lotsa code
    It's all about the link people, it is a repost but worthwhile completing

    Towards Zero - Introduction

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by taint View Post
      It's all about the link people, it is a repost but worthwhile completing

      Towards Zero - Introduction
      Sorry about the code - fixed now.

      But yeah, as the MRA said:

      Get in and let them know a motorcyclists point of view before some politician decides what is best for us without knowing what he/she is talking about!
      "Live Long and Prosper"

      Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

      Comment


      • #4
        I got to page one of the survey, decided "if they want to word it in such a way that it's painful to contemplate, then fuck them"


        Heh... just re-read spocks first post, seems i wasn't the only one...


        edit:
        You can tell it's one of those surveys where they've got an agenda and have worded things in a way to direct your answers to support their current policy. Yay.
        “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

        Comment


        • #5
          I did fill in this survey a little while ago, painful as it might have been. I was perhaps not quite so confrontational with my wording as you Spock, but now I am wishing I had been.

          The message I sent was similar though, I just didn't imply they were insane.

          Love your work mate.
          Adventure before Dementia

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Spock View Post
            Sorry about the code - fixed now.

            But yeah, as the MRA said:

            Get in and let them know a motorcyclists point of view before some politician decides what is best for us without knowing what he/she is talking about!
            NP, It's been said above but love your work with the insanity comment.

            I filled it in about a week ago when Drach posted it up. I am hoping that our comments will get through to someone that counts

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Spock View Post
              I started filling out the survey a few weeks ago but lost interest/got pissed off because their questions are worded so badly.

              Same here, did it yesterday. Now I feel like I should have ranted a bit more, but i was kind of trying not to be written off as an anomalistic statistic... (hey, rhyme!)

              Here's some of what I wrote, it's not as coherent as I would have liked though.

              SPEED:
              ------

              I don't believe reducing speed limits is the answer to compensating for people's poor driving skills. If people drive more slowly there would be a false sense of security and even worse driving habits will become prevalent. People should be instilled with a sense of responsibility by being expected to demonstrate higher skill and safer driving, instead of being wrapped in cotton-wool.

              I think many of our roads could in fact safely support a higher speed limit, for example 130km/h on some rural highways.
              Speed is over-emphasised because it is the most enforceable infringement.

              A crash 'caused' by speed means the driver was going too fast for the road conditions, which are dynamic and not always suitable for the posted limit.
              If speed limits are reduced, drivers will exceed them anyway, to the extent that they feel safe, balanced against the risk & cost of being caught. I see this as merely another move to raise revenue.


              SAFETY:
              -------

              Improving vehicle safety is important, but once again just seems like 'wrapping people in cotton-wool' in order to protect them from themselves.
              Diminishing personal responsibility seems to be the unhappy trend currently echoed across society, and it stinks.

              It was said to me once that a sure way to make people drive more safely would be to install a large metal spike sticking out of every steering wheel. That way everyone would drive so as to make ABSOLUTELY sure they don't crash, rather than thinking "well I have a safe car so crashing won't hurt me so much"

              Obviously it's not a feasible solution, but hopefully it helps to illustrate the point that airbags shouldn't be seen as a substitute for crash prevention.

              Stability control and "speed adaptation" once again take responsibility away from the driver. If they aren't capable of controlling their vehicle or adapting their own speed to suit the conditions, then maybe they should be taught to drive better before being allowed on the road.
              "No machine has a soul until a man shares his own with it."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mockery View Post
                Same here, did it yesterday. Now I feel like I should have ranted a bit more, but i was kind of trying not to be written off as an anomalistic statistic... (hey, rhyme!)

                Here's some of what I wrote, it's not as coherent as I would have liked though.

                Well written.
                "Live Long and Prosper"

                Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

                Comment


                • #9
                  well said Spock

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shmoo View Post
                    well said Spock
                    Not according to Tex,
                    Originally posted by Tex View Post
                    I just don't rate people who turn around and say "this system/goverment/job or whatever is fucked" when asked why , they say "i don't know it's just fucked" asked how they would make it better....they just look at you with a blank look on their face !

                    if people are constructive in their comments then they get a lot more respect, I like what you've said in regards to road safety ..., but at the end of it you should of been offering well thought out constructive ideas on how to fix the problem, rather than just say
                    "How about coming up with road safety suggestions that might actually make a difference? "
                    that to me doesn't show initiatives, it just says come up with something else and i'll continue to pick faults with it ! which is something that anyone can do !
                    If you are not offering solutions then it just comes across as whinging and complaining to me ! Sorry , but that's just my opinion!
                    "Live Long and Prosper"

                    Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      by making the questionaire a real chore to fill in, they're hoping that we'll get frustrated and not do it ...

                      i think thats the intent, so they can say later that we didnt have many comments and presume that the majority agree with the proposal ...

                      please fill it in

                      my 2c worth

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        well said Spock

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Agree with all spock & mock said...Filled it out about a month or so ago with very similar comments. Suggestions where also made that the RSC requires new leadership.
                          In complete darkness we are all the same. It is only our knowledge and wisdom that seperate us. Dont let your eyes deceive you.
                          Its the little things that make the difference
                          Originally posted by IPIT on relationships
                          If either/both of you can take a dump with the other person being next to you within a week of meeting them then you're in with a VERY good chance.

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