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your chance to have your say !!

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  • your chance to have your say !!

    ok , now that the day has come and gone and we're all looking forward to next time it occurs , (IF there is a next time) we'd like to ask the forum members how we could improve the day , what you thought was good , what you didn't like , and any ideas that you have !!

  • #2
    Dude, I dont think u could of done much better and how's about that bloody weather, respect!!!!

    For the next day though I would like to have music going in the pits for all of us, just adds to the vibe I think, maybe Krissy could even organise the radio station to come down with one of their Promo cars for some tunes all day and sponsor that way???

    Also I think we needed some sort of PA system so it saved poor Deej's legs walking up and down the pits when he wanted to announce anything.

    Other than that I think u guys did a bloody good job and i felt it was a pleasure to be there with the PE boyz 8) 8)
    Quote: "What do i like about the GP?......The Crumpet I S&#39;pose" <span style="font-family:Times">The Late Barry Sheene &#39;01</span>


    • #3
      the day was awsome, and for a first attempt it was bloody well done, hats off to the organisers!
      the little things for the PE TRACK DAY 2, music, for sure, it was cool having the old val pump a few for a while.
      and the radio station is a great way to get the spectators through the gate and be introduced to what should be a way of life.
      dido the PA system, maybe even something like we all had at our sports carnivals, you know those big double hollywood style fuckers.
      how about a sports bike show and shine? or even something similar 2 motorvations but for bikes, with accsessories, product stalls, and dealership track day riders only specials and give the perth dealers a chance to all chip in and support perth sports bike riders so we can support them!
      a mobile tyre fitting station for those who wish to trash tyres for our enjoyment over and over again 8)
      but again ill say hats off to the organisers and even if these things are not in place next year ill still be going.


      • #4
        a mobile tyre fitting station for those who wish to trash tyres for our enjoyment over and over again
        There is usually a tyre machine at the track I think so it shouldn't be too difficult to organise the use of it through the SCC or MCRC?


        • #5

          PE Team - the below mentioned comments are given strictly as constructive criticism, not sledging and not finger pointing.

          Alot of the issues raised below were not under the control of the TEAM to change due to the Goldfields School running the track sessions. Again not finger pointing but just some thoughts I think may improve the next event.

          My comments are based upon 7 years of delivering training/courses both here in Australia and overseas. Other comments raised are from conversations I have had with attendees, onlookers and other people who have previous experience in running such sessions.

          Ideas and thoughts;

          1. 30 min Sessions were far too long, both for novices and for experienced riders. Concentration levels drop. Fatigue sets in. No race meeting or racecraft course at Wanneroo are that long. Tyres go off, especially if riding style is incorrect, you are just shredding rubber.

          (Yes I know it was up to the rider to make a judgement call and come off the track if he felt tired but when people pay $200 for a track day, most pull off at the end of the session as to obtain their monies worth. This induces unneccessary incidents).

          2. Two groups (Group 1 and Group 2) did not allow for enough flexibility in placing attendees in the most appropriate group according to their motorcycle and riding ability.

          Eg; a 250 GPX should not of been in the same class as a 954 Fireblade.

          Even if both riders are novices, shear horsepower of the Blade and other big bores in the group would be continually passing the smaller 250's. This unsettles the 250 riders cornering ability due to the conscious thought of "Is there a bike about to come underneath or around me at speed" when the cpnscious and thus sub-conscious thoughts should soley be on the corner they are approaching, looking through the corner, up ahead looking to where they want to go to.

          Frustration was experienced by the more advanced riders in Group 2 by having quite a few riders in that group that really werent up to the pace required to circulate safely. Experienced riders were held up in various corners by inexperienced riders taking wide lines, slowing mid turn causing the experienced rider to back off then unable to pass as the inexperienced rider then accelerates in a straight line, pulling away, only to slow up in the corner again.

          Yes the experienced riders could of passed at times but that would of ment going underneath which may of unsettled the more inexperienced guys, forcing an unneccessary error. None of us were there to spoil any ones day, we weren't 'racing' so erring on the side of safety prevailed for the majority of the experienced riders, biding their time but at the same time holding them up.

          Some riders used their common sense and realised within the first two sessions they were a little out of their depth and asked to be placed into Group 1.

          This helped the above issue however in turn created the problem of 250's being overtaken at speed by the bigger bore bikes.

          3. Far too many riders were on the track at one time. The effectiveness of the cornering without brakes session was largely diminished due to the number of riders on the track. The faster riders caught the slower riders within a couple of laps and then braking was required to prevent running into the rider ahead. It was not made clear whether overtaking was permitted at that stage so conjestion was experienced.

          These three issues can be rectified by implementing the following program.

          Adopting a three phase outline.

          Group A

          Experienced Riders - pre-requisites; Race Licence/Previous Racecraft or Roadcraft Courses/600CC and above (250 GP allowed abiding pre-requisites completed)

          Group B

          Novice 1 - pre-requisites; 600CC and above (250 two stroke allowed if previously completed racecraft/roadcraft courses)

          Group C

          Novice 2 - pre-requisites; 250cc to 400cc (Nil experience required)

          Track Sessions broken down to 20 minutes each on rotation.

          Group A - on track.

          Group B - basic suspension/mechanical advice. Questions & Answers.

          Group C - racecraft/roadcraft theory. Q & A. Video footage of track, racing lines etc.

          Off track sessions timing to be flexible according to need, allowing attendees to drink, rest and chat prior to next track session.

          Five mins before Group A is due to end track session, Group B given 5 min notification, to be on Dummy Grid asap. Then as Group A rides 'off track', Group B is immediately riding 'on track'

          This ensures minimum down time and maximum track time. Effective an efficient time management.

          Attendees would experience far greater gains in their riding style as they would have both on and off track assistance from instructors.


          1. Attending Instructors to ensure they are there for the students benefit and not their own. What benefit does a 250 rider get out of having an Instructor blow past him lap after lap. This was what I observed watching Group 1.

          I experienced an Instructor in Group 2 to pass on the inside coming down the hill into Novus Corner only to raise his arm to pull off prior to tipping into the turn. The need for this? The point of this? All it did was upset my corner approach as I had to brake harder and pull up to allow him to pull of the track. If he knew he was going to pull off the track what was the need to pass me at the last minute?

          An Instructor should only be an Instructor if he is willing to assist in the development of others and not for his own personal gain. Having the ability to ride fast does not give you the ability to train. Communication is the first key, secondly leading by example. Thirdly being approachable and showing respect to the attendees who paid good money to attend and learn.

          What was the need to blast past the attendees in Group 1 on the Track Familiarisation walk? One busted Mirror which could of been a fatal.

          Group 2 Instructor Graham Mackenzie was an exception to this. Points to Macca. He had the ability to ride faster than anyone at the track yet happily assisted all day riding behind and infront giving assistance where required.

          Comments received from some riders within Group 1 were that they didn't realise they were going to be participating in a Braking and Cornering course. They thought it was a PE Track day and that the trainers were their just to give assistance as required.

          Again with the above mentioned time schedule, both goals can be achieved.

          I am a strong believer that you need to learn to walk before you run so the theory is neccessary.

          It takes three things to ride a motorcycle.


          All three must be present especially attitude. It doesn't matter who you are, everyone can still learn something.

          Comments re facilities;

          I enjoyed the food but I did hear a few complaints. I think the Team did a great job considering Nandos wasn't first choice but an improvisation seeing how the original company went broke.

          Major point though, enough food was ordered for all participants.. Notice the word participants.
          Track onlookers helped themselves which ment some participants missed out causing dave to have to leave and buy some more food. A bit unfair guys on those that paid the $200 to attend.

          Again I did hear some track onlookers complain there was a lack of facilites for themselves such as food purchasing availablilty, drink availability.

          A remedy for this next time may be arranging for the MCRC to have the track canteen open. They do this for the Racecraft courses which seems to have enough business warranting it being open.

          I agree to a previous comment made, having the grandstand for viewers which helps create atmosphere and also for safety by preventing unneccessary people walking about in the dummy grid.

          From an Industry persepective a Sunday would be a better day to run the course due to bike shops being open on a Saturday. More staff assistance and representation of bikes for display etc would be possible for Sundays.

          I know enough top level racers who are more than willing to assist and give up their time to assist free of charge to ensure the smooth running of the next PE day.

          I know some guys or girls for that matter say Sundays are family days so if next year is run on a Sunday, I personally will pay for a Bouncy Castle to be present to help keep the kids entertained. No reason Motorcycling can't be a family event.

          On a positive note:

          Hats must be taken off to Deej and the crew for surely the best overall trackday experienced by all.

          For a crew of guys that had never done anything like this before WELL DONE.

          Do the crew a favour though and for those thinking of attending next year, start saving now so no pull outs due to lack of funds. Eg; save for nomination fee plus tyres plus fuel plus riding gear plus spares etc.

          Get your money together, pay the boys early rather than a few days before as so they can confirm bookings and not have to unfairly put their hand in their own pockets.

          Then the improvements Deej has mentioned will be possible.

          Remember help them to help you!

          That goes to for supporting Causeway Honda and Northside Kawasaki. Out of all the bike shops in Perth, who was there on Saturday.

          Thanks to Steve Ford from Causeway Honda for the support, provision of the Crash Ute etc.

          Big thanks to Gary from Kawasaki Northside, he unfortunately could not be at the track due to running the shop.


          • #6
            All excellent feedback Alan and lots of points that we found frustrating also.

            Time management was the thing that I felt most disappointed with as Madmax mentioned….. having substantial periods of time with nobody on the track was wastefull. This will have to be managed by dedicated people on the next day to ensure that the moment that last rider from the previous group vacates, the next group is out riding. A track Marshall next time is a certainty.

            We set a schedule for the day which unfortunately wasn’t stuck to. Although we may tell a group to get out on the dummy grid, an instructor and marshals would be back out in their own time.

            30 mins is way too long, I know that after 5 mins of head down hard riding and I am knackerd. I can imagine those people who were on the track for the first time would feel.

            We also requested three groups not two (based on our discussions in the shop a few days prior), however John Green said no. I would say it would have taken some more work on their part.

            The instructors not helping thing is something that really shits me as I had a similar experience in the racecraft course and I felt I had no opportunity to comfortably approche someone and ask a question. It is this VERY reason that I made a strong point in the briefing at the start by saying loudly “John Green is being paid for the day, please ensure that you take advantage of that and ask the instructors questions when you see them bla bla bla..” U know I didn’t say that so much for the riders benefit, but I said it so the damn instructors would listen and take note and maybe think “yeah that’s right, I’m hear to teach and provide help”.

            When I heard the incident with the instructor coming over skyline and clipping the mirror I was shocked.

            Being our first we all learned form today and life is all about doing things wrong and not doing them again. Both myself and the team have all talked extensively over the last 24 hours and there are a lot of things we would like the opportunity to do better next time.

            We are all happy everyone still had a great day and the constructive feedback really helps, keep it coming. We want to make sure the next one is better still.

            I think the majority of the weak points were largely the areas that were sadly beyond our control. To fix this is easy…we use that experience and bring them in our control. This will certainly mean doing it ourselves with suitably qualified individuals working to a program and format that we dictate based on everyone’s feedback like some of you have already done.

            If anything people, trust in that fact that both I and the guys from the team are observant people. We don’t miss much and a saw a lot to be concerned about and areas to be addressed. We will make sure they are.

            It is all good feedback and constructive to make the next one even better. Thanks for being part of it.

            So on the eight day, after wasting time faffing about with unimportant guff like heaven & earth & the waters & sky & creatures [& having a wee kip] & man.... God created PSB (GenesiSX-R1000)


            • #7
              A far fetched idea (fantastic in a perfect world)

              It's be really good if a handfull of us could get qualified and registered to conduct our own schools, doing everything ourselves. Now that'd be pharkin great but like I said, only in a perfect world.........but it's not impossible.......


              • #8
                Actually Camps is is possible.... we just hire the instructors privatly, the same way John Green does. At the end of the day, apart from Maca, they have no qualifications apart from the ability to ride wanneroo at a reasonable pace.

                Madmax himself would prob have more driver training qualifications that all of them put together.

                Madmax.... I believe your in charge of the rider training committee!

                So on the eight day, after wasting time faffing about with unimportant guff like heaven & earth & the waters & sky & creatures [& having a wee kip] & man.... God created PSB (GenesiSX-R1000)


                • #9

                  When I heard the incident with the instructor coming over skyline and clipping the mirror I was shocked.
                  Well if you were shocked, i was shitting my self as i happend right in front of me and about 3m to the side.

                  John Green was doing his speel about position or somethin, and all the sutednts are in a single in on the left of the track, and two instructory next to each other on the right side, when suddenly some dick on a zx9 comes flying over the hill (120km/h is my esitmate, give or take) . He would have not been able to seen the instructors over the crest. He was on a direct collision cousr with the guy on the left, and managed to just sqezzes between them :shock: :shock: :shock:

                  His right mirror hits the mirror on the R1 on the right. And his left inticator hits the other bike on the left.

                  It took him till the entry to Novus to stop :shock:

                  That could have easliy been a fatal incident and left the student in a bit of shock.

                  Methinks Somebody will not have a job Today, and frankly i woulndt wanting to be riding anywhere him in the near future.


                  I found that the feedback from John Green was Fantastic, but not so from the others, who eventhough thery were following me coulnt remember anything to say about me when we got back to the pits.

                  Big thanks to Calvin for the tip to bump up my idle to 2500rpm to reduce engine breaking. THat helped quite a bit

                  Big thanks to the boys for getting extra food, coz i missed out coz some ungratful n00b's are to much of a tight ass to realise that some people have baid a fir bit of money to have the amenities on the day. ie MY LUNCH!!!!!

                  Although a two day event next year sounds great, im a bit worred about fatigue from lack of sleep, and also the prohibitave cost for riders. :?

                  Cheers to the perthextreme babe for providing some excelent eye-candy for the day.

                  Big-ups to the boys for the stunts.

                  On the issue of numbers, i think that the people got bored in group one and moved into group 2 (spike) which ment that there was about 20 ingroup 1 at the end of the day (perfect numbers) and 30 in the phsyco group (bit crowded me thinks). Three groupds would have been better.

                  20 min sessions may have been better, coz by the final session i told myseflt i was too tired to go out again (although i desperatle wanted to). Shorter sessions ment the day cousld have been extended.

                  Thank to Kawasaki Northside for my $30 voucher.

                  Thanks to hewie for trying to keep up, but sorry about your bike man, hope it not too pricey to fix.

                  Above all, the biggest congrats got to the PE boyz! There unseen (by us) hours running around orgainsing ment a fantastic day was had by all. Ill give you a deposit on next year when i get paind at the end of the week



                  • #10
                    Fantastic job for a first time effort guys!

                    Most of the gripes about the day that i have were covered by madmax.

                    Sorry bout the lack of music in the pits guys i ment to bring my stereo up for the day but lack of 4 wheel transport canned that idea. It was a last minute thought on friday evening... I got it covered next time!

                    I'm the noob you all pwn!


                    • #11
                      Actually Camps is is possible.... we just hire the instructors privatly, the same way John Green does.  At the end of the day, apart from Maca, they have no qualifications apart from the ability to ride wanneroo at a reasonable pace.

                      Madmax himself would prob have more driver training qualifications that all of them put together.

                      Madmax.... I believe your in charge of the rider training committee!
                      Well lets look at it mate, how much better would it be!!!


                      • #12
                        I had no words or emotions for that dude that nearly cleaned up the other instructors.

                        There was no need for john to stop us at that point of the track (JUST over the crest of skyline) .. I see it as the most dangerous spot to stop a bunch of track-newbies.

                        Bad judgement on John's part aswell as the rider. But, human's will be humans. I'm just glad we weren't bunched up in a group like we were at the left handed corner or that dude wouldn't have had room to squeeze through.
                        mmmmm sacrilicious


                        • #13
                          as usual i cant keep my frikkin mouth shut and i asked john green " did one of your guys come off? I saw a broken mirror on his bike"

                          He replied " nah, just a little incident up on the track"

                          totally blew off any issues of safety from his "qualified" guys!!



                          • #14
                            most of my thoughts have already been mentioned. namely:
                            :arrow: time management was a bit average
                            :arrow: some of the instructors were a bit disappointing in that they couldn't tell you much that you didn't already know. i found i was better off asking for advice from some of the riders in my own group. i know that a couple of the instructors weren't even at the same pace as the "students". i asked one of the instructors roughly what sort of tyre pressures i should be running...he said "i don't know - what do you normally run?". i asked calvin and he told me where i should be at, lent me his gauge and then asked me how i went when i came back in. to be fair though, i didn't really ask many questions of the instructors after that
                            :arrow: it could be a good idea to introduce the use of flags. its frustrating when you lose half a session due to someone else binning it. a yellow flag would warn people that someone was down and that they should take it easy. taking everyone off the track for five minutes doesn't help a perfect world you would have marshalls at every corner (i know...$$$)
                            :arrow: i also think that 20 min sessions would be much better. fatigue becomes a big issue when you're really going for it.
                            :arrow: i also think the grouping could have been done a little better. as a slightly more experienced track rider than some of the people in my group, i found that it was a little dangerous in some circumstances. it was quite common to see people gassing it down the straights and parking the bike in the corners. the riders are fully entitled to be doing that, don't get me wrong, but this does stuff up the quicker riders who may be on something like a 600 that doesn't have the balls to do a nice straight line pass and they end up having to pass the other rider aggressively under the brakes...which can in turn put the inexperienced rider off. the more experienced riders that i saw on track went out of their way to be courteous and not do that...but i did see it hapen a bit and can understand why it did happen.
                            the worst incident i saw was when i was coming onto the pit straight in a group of three bikes at full pace directly behind another rider when the person at the lead suddenly put his hand up and veered left over the ripple strip into the pits. the pe team member in front of me barely missed him and i was even closer...could have been very dangerous. another problem was people not staying left on the straights. in group two there were people doing 65 second laps to people doing over 85 seconds. another group between one and two would be much better.

                            i realise that most of these points are/were beyond the control of the pe members involved in the organising of the event, but it is just a bit of constructive criticism. it was still a great day. i had an absolute ball and would gladly pay up and go again...maybe not next weekend though as i still can't walk


                            • #15
                              Adding to Campo's point, I actually have a driving instructors license that i have played with the idea of using for bike instruction as well and while I dont have the same pace as the instructors and other guys on the trackover the weekend I do have some experience in running advanced driving courses and 6 years of rally experience under my belt which is useful in that type of riding also beleive it or not.

                              Chookie probably has more details on that but if I can be of assistance I would more than happily help out in that area if possible.

                              Whatever we can do to make it more of a self contained, in house day the better I think, that way as Deej said it comes under our control and therefor can be made better.

                              So yes Campo it is possible.
                              Quote: "What do i like about the GP?......The Crumpet I S&#39;pose" <span style="font-family:Times">The Late Barry Sheene &#39;01</span>