Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Before attending a ride: Corner Marking - what, why, how, etc.

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Before attending a ride: Corner Marking - what, why, how, etc.

    OK, this is the FAQ for Corner Marking. I don't claim to know every way of doing it, or claim to be the worlds best corner marker or whatever, but this is pretty much a motorcycling specific concept and is of great importance to any group ride functioning properly. If you're a new rider, you may be unfamiliar with the concept. That's fine. It's not rocket science, but it DOES rely on everybody doing their part for it to work.



    So what is corner marking?
    Corner marking is a method to ensure that a group of bikes on an organised ride are able to not get separated despite having to deal with traffic, intersections, accidents, etc. It enables people to follow the leader, but also enables the leader to back-track all the way to an incident if something happens, as he'll have a heap of corner markers behind him waiting at corners for bikes that never arrived.

    The idea is that when the ride reaches a corner, a person will pull to the side of the road some way before the actual corner with their indicator on, to let following bikes know which way the ride turned. The rider will then wait there until some agreed upon event occurs (most of the time, the designated "tail end charlie" bike arrives and flashes the headlight or whatever to indicate they are the last bike - at which point they will wait for you to re-join the ride and proceed to the next corner marker). If you reach an intersection and there is no corner marker, the protocol is to continue straight (straight through is not marked). If you get to an intersection that is not straight through and there is no corner marker (e.g., T junction) then unfortunately the guy ahead of you is a douche bag and fucked up the corner marking.

    There are a number of different variants of corner marking, and which one the organiser of the ride dictates is down to both personal preference, size of the ride, frequency of corners, and possibly experience level of the group. Some of the variants include (and I'm sure one of the old school crew will correct me on terminology if I fuck it up):


    Rolling corner marking
    If you are not the designated "tail end charlie" (hereafter known as the "TEC"), and you get a a corner and can not see a bike behind you indicating that they are going to also turn the corner, you pull over and wait. If you are the last bike to arrive at the meet point and you aren't the TEC using rolling corner marking, guess what? You're the person who split the group up. You are responsible for checking on the bike behind you. Advantage: if the group is not split, and everybody can see the bike behind them, this can stay flowing quite well.

    Rotating corner marking
    If you are the bike immediately behind the leader, and the leader indicates they are turning a corner, you indicate, pull over and wait to mark the corner.

    Designated corner markers
    Some pre-determined riders will be marking corners. follow these guys. Mostly specific to the LNR/WSR rides. If you're a corner marker you should know the deal. If you're not, you just follow the marker bikes.

    "Keep up or crash trying"
    No formal corner marking. In reality (sometimes? ), everybody will look out for the guys behind and adjust speed/wait to suit (bike in mirror gets smaller = roll off, bike in mirror gets bigger = roll on). Unless they think you're a douche.

    How long do you wait?

    You wait until one of 2 things happens:
    • all of the following bikes catch up and go through the corner, and you see the TEC arrive and flash his lights/toot/whatever to indicate that he's the last bike and all is good
    • the leader/guys up ahead realise that the group has thinned out and no one is following them. they will back-track to each corner marker to find out what is going on. It may take a few minutes for the leader to realise the group is thinning out (more on larger rides) and then some time to travel back and pick up each rider on the way back.


    This may be 10 seconds. it may be 10 minutes, 20 minutes, possibly more - if something bad has happened, like an accident, the group got pulled over, stuck at series of lights, etc.

    One thing you DO NOT do, is assume "meh, no bikes coming, i'll carry on up ahead". The whole point is that they may be stuck somewhere out of visual range, and if you leave your corner, they will have no idea where the ride went. The code word is butterfingers.


    Typically, the ride leader will go over the corner marking expectations before the ride commences. If you do not understand, now is the time to clarify what is expected of you with the ride leader. Not just wing it and hope you don't have to corner mark.

    If you understand, but just can't be bothered, then do not attend.

    Fucking up the corner marking just ruins everybody's ride. People get lost (which sucks for them). The leader is wondering WTF happened, maybe pulling over to answer calls from people who are lost, etc (which sucks for him, and slows down the ride). The leader might also get fucked off with the whole idea (why do I bother, etc.) and not organise any more rides (bad for you).

    The guy/gal leading the ride is going out of their way to show you some good roads or whatever, the least you can do is help their ride run smoothly by marking corners as requested.

    It's not rocket science, but unfortunately all it needs is one or two people to not corner mark properly, to fuck the ride up for everyone.

    Don't be that guy. Do your best to mark corners as required


    If corners are marked properly, there is no reason to run lights, no reason to push beyond your limits, etc. You will not be left behind if everybody does the right thing. If you are scared you will be left behind if you corner mark, don't be.
    Last edited by thro; 11-05-2014, 09:58 PM. Reason: added code word
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

  • #2
    & when there are corner markers who need to get back to the front, don't race them and try stay on the left track so they can safely pass you
    Don't ride faster than your guardian angel can fly...

    Comment


    • #3
      Perhaps also add - when corner marking, please keep an eye for the TEC, he'll be flashing from quite a distance and that's the signal for you to go.

      Don't sit there looking ahead up until the TEC reaches you, then has to wait for you to go as it can cause delays, especially when marking a corner at a set of traffic lights.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cornermark in a safe and visible spot so as riders can see you clearly but you do not affect other traffic. Indicate turning direction, regardless of what side of the road you are on and adequately ahead of the designated corner where appropriate.
        yes, i am ignorant
        yes, i am a prick
        no, i don't care
        you make me sick

        Comment


        • #5
          I haven't been on many PSB rides (one! ) but the organiser said 'if the corner marking goes pear shaped, the first meet point is....".

          Gives everyone a get out of jail card if it all goes horribly wrong and takes a bit of heat off the corner marker who screwed up.
          It didn't look that far on the map...

          Comment


          • #6
            When corner marking a freeway exit, 20M up the exit ramp is NOT a good spot. There always seems to be someone riding in the RH lane who won't see you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by thro View Post
              ...There are a number of different variants of corner marking, and which one the organiser of the ride dictates is down to both personal preference and possibly experience level of the group. Some of the variants are (and I'm sure one of the old school crew will correct me on terminology if I fuck it up):


              Rolling corner marking
              If you are not the designated "tail end charlie" (hereafter known as the "TEC"), and you get a a corner and can not see a bike behind you indicating that they are going to also turn the corner, you pull over and wait until you see the next bike behind you indicating . If you are the last bike to arrive at the meet point and you aren't the TEC using rolling corner marking, guess what? You're the person who split the group up. You are responsible for checking on the bike behind you. Advantage: if the group is not split, and everybody can see the bike behind them, this can stay flowing quite well.

              Rotating corner marking
              If you are the bike immediately behind the leader, and the leader indicates they are turning a corner, you indicate, pull over and wait For the TEC

              ...
              Thanks for posting that Thro, I'd thought of doing something similar before. I've added some detail in bold as I often see the 2 types of CMing get mixed with regard to who you wait for.

              Comment


              • #8
                I also stumbled across another corner marking method this afternoon here:

                Untitled Document

                TLDR:
                Corner Marking System
                * When approaching a corner, junction or any other change in direction, the Ride Leader will indicate with his/her left arm for the rider immediately behind, (the second rider) to MARK the corner.
                * To do this, the rider behind the ride leader should pull over at a safe distance before the turn and indicate to the following riders with his arm and bike indicators, which direction to take. On exiting the corner, the Ride Leader will again indicate with his/her left arm for the rider immediately behind to MARK the exit to the corner or junction. The following rider, should pull over just around the corner, preferably within view of the first corner marker.
                * At a roundabout and where there is no left or right turn, the Ride Leader, as he/she exits the roundabout, will indicate with his/her left arm to the rider immediately behind on the opposite side of the roundabout to mark the direction of travel
                * Both of corner markers should remain where they are, until signalled to ride on by the Tail End Charlie. The reason for this is simple, if someone breaks down one member can stay at the corner, the other can go back, after a reasonable time, and find out what the problem is.? However, please don't under any circumstances leave a designated corner 'UNMARKED' until instructed to move on by the Tail End Charlie.
                I've never been on a ride with 2 corner markers per corner before, but I can immediately see the benefit of having a second rider to either ride ahead to let people know of trouble, or back-track to locate the pack in case of the group being split.

                Has anyone who leads rides tried this, and how did it work out?
                “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by thro View Post
                  I also stumbled across another corner marking method this afternoon here:

                  Untitled Document

                  TLDR:


                  I've never been on a ride with 2 corner markers per corner before, but I can immediately see the benefit of having a second rider to either ride ahead to let people know of trouble, or back-track to locate the pack in case of the group being split.

                  Has anyone who leads rides tried this, and how did it work out?
                  Nope. Would only work with 50+ bikes i would think, otherwise you would run out of cm's before you left a suburb. Would be good on long country runs tho.
                  yes, i am ignorant
                  yes, i am a prick
                  no, i don't care
                  you make me sick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wouldn't mind seeing 2 CMs on Fwy exits, the first 200M before the exit. NB before I get jumped on, no it has never caught me out, but on WSRs I often see it as a problem for others who didn't know we were exiting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's a tip...

                      Freeways are straight and boring, stay off them...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rich... View Post
                        Here's a tip...

                        Freeways are straight and boring, stay off them...
                        I agree completely but WSRs sometimes use them to get back to thestart point or get to the tunnel

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by truewheel View Post
                          I haven't been on many PSB rides (one! ) but the organiser said 'if the corner marking goes pear shaped, the first meet point is....".

                          Gives everyone a get out of jail card if it all goes horribly wrong and takes a bit of heat off the corner marker who screwed up.

                          This is one way of doing it however it doesn't take into account a couple of things:
                          • the ride may not have a set destination
                          • it doesn't account for people binning their shit and getting assistance


                          Like it or not, it is a fact of life that sometimes, some people crash. If they are on the ride route, and everybody marks corners, they will be found by the next rider who will then pull the ride over to assist.

                          When the leader notices that few/no bikes are following him he will backtrack to the incident.
                          “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by truewheel View Post
                            I haven't been on many PSB rides (one! ) but the organiser said 'if the corner marking goes pear shaped, the first meet point is....".

                            Gives everyone a get out of jail card if it all goes horribly wrong and takes a bit of heat off the corner marker who screwed up.
                            Originally posted by thro View Post
                            This is one way of doing it however it doesn't take into account a couple of things:
                            • the ride may not have a set destination
                            • it doesn't account for people binning their shit and getting assistance


                            Like it or not, it is a fact of life that sometimes, some people crash. If they are on the ride route, and everybody marks corners, they will be found by the next rider who will then pull the ride over to assist.

                            When the leader notices that few/no bikes are following him he will backtrack to the incident.
                            Also if someone decides to peel off and go home, there's noone around for them to notify.

                            Nothing worse than getting to a meet point, realise a rider is missing and the shit hits the fan (whilst that rider is at home with their feet up). It's not a nice feeling.
                            Originally posted by vk6hgr
                            My Hyosung couldn't do that speed if it was dropped in from orbit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This.

                              Last night 4 riders peeled off without so much of a wave, almost cause the tail end of the pack to follow them.

                              Originally posted by Daise View Post
                              Also if someone decides to peel off and go home, there's noone around for them to notify.

                              Nothing worse than getting to a meet point, realise a rider is missing and the shit hits the fan (whilst that rider is at home with their feet up). It's not a nice feeling.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X