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Ducati 851: classic racer build

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  • #31
    Hi found this group on facebook and thoughty you may be interested
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/7575...2/?ref=unknown Ducati Superbike 851/888 Buy,sell,trade
    sigpic

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    • #32
      Thanks folks!

      Exhaust is nearly sorted: have the headers, have the cans, just need someone to glue 'em together....

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      • #33
        Shame you weren't closer!

        Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

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        • #34
          Originally posted by tankslap View Post
          Shame you weren't closer!

          Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
          Meet you in Darwin? LOL

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          • #35
            Bet I'd get a few looks loading the tig into the overhead locker.....

            Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

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            • #36
              Exhaust 'shop recommendation required

              Time to attack that exhaust....

              The classic "spaghetti" Termignoni systems of the Factory/kit race bikes are unobtainium, and while copies are available they are priced like NASA parts. Luckily Aussie Ducati tech legend Brad Black has carried out some pretty exhaustive testing and documented most of it for us to enjoy: http://bikeboy.org/performance.html

              The poor ol' 851/888 are a little strangled by their 40mm headers, and he set about comparing a couple of other options, so left to right we have 40mm 851/888, 45mm ST4, 50mm Ducati Performance (DP) 50mm systems



              And these are the results, green is 45mm 851/888, blue is 45mm ST4, red is 50mm DP system:



              (taken from here, thanks Brad: http://bikeboy.org/888st4ex.html)

              The DP system is very pretty in the flesh, but ST4 looks much prettier on the dyno, and looks absolutely gorgeous on the credit card statement.

              So the anti-glam ST4 was a no-brainer....but was surprisingly tricky to find as 99% have kerb damage on the front header.

              But what about the cans? ST4 aftermarket would be a simple bolt on and could be swivelled to a jaunty angle but they all looked just a little bulky and "I wear a cardigan-ish" for my liking. I was pretty well buggered for quite a while.......until my brain did it's usual "cough-cough-fart" and woke up while looking at something completely unrelated. Don't ask me, I don't know how the fukn thing works....but I was looking at some mid-2000's WSB stuff and saw this pic of Max Biaggi's Alstare GSXR1000K7 with the twin Arrow cans:



              And I realised I was looking at the thing I never knew I always wanted. Here's a better look at a similar system:



              So one Ebay search later, a very cheeky bid, hold your breath for 2 1/2 days and......winner! Sellers pic's:





              They aren't going to be everyone's cup of chai latte but to my eye they just look a little fresher while still giving a nod to old school.

              Now I just need a recommendation for someone to do a nice job of manufacturing some pretty simple pipe elbows. South of the river would be ideal but travelling North is no biggie for a nice job. Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

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              • #37
                Open Tapatalk on phone, scroll down to Perth Street Bikes, click on to Members Projects.....sweet, Slowpoke has posted.


                Brad the bikeboy has written some good articles on forks and spring rates aswell.

                I like the nod to the old skool twin pipe with a modern take on the muffler shape. It's a hard balance to strike.
                Shouldn't be to hard to find someone over there to weld it up if you cut the pipe up, dress the ends up and tape it into the position you want.

                Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

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                • #38
                  Holy shit, it's a bit sobering when you go to update your own project and realise it is actually a thread dredge

                  Between the old man having a stroke, a storm ripping the roof off an old cottage on our property (empty, but still needs to be dealt with), the usual Christmas bullshit, bad timing with my roster, the poor ol' 851 has been starved of attention. Having said that it's sorta one of those Pantene moments: things haven't happened overnight, but they have happened.

                  While I may have been an absentee parent Potato assumed the role of primary care giver, applying some much needed TLC to the fairing panels I dropped off for daycare. The fairings are actually in pretty good nick apart from the replacement early 851 tail I had found to replace the later 888 style (I just prefer the look and it's more authentic to the year), and the nose cone. The tail was a very good news story, and turns out it has a bit of history in coming from Dani Amatriain's Factory-spec racer back in the day. I don't know why, for some reason I just assumed it was fibreglass but it turned out to be carbon fibre: winna winna chicken dinna! Amatriain was a pretty good racer (up to WSB level) in his own right but is probably more well known for managing Jorge Lorenzo (and the Espargaro brothers) at one stage.







                  The fact that the tail came with the seat and bump pad was a huge bonus. The seat is normally just a moulded rubber pad but this has been recovered and doesn't look too bad, while the bump pad "skin" is a bit crumbly, but as Factory race parts they are virtually impossible to find so I was as happy as a dog with two dicks considering the bargain price. I actually thought about it before removing the stickers and considered a full Marlboro paint job as Amatriain raced with: very cool, but I had to be realistic and draw the line somewhere. And looking closely it was in pretty poor condition so after a deep breath the stickers came off and I sanded away layers of paint and patina and patched up the cracks before handing over to Potato to work his magic. The nose was fine, I just wanted a classic/retro number board applied, which sounds uber-simple but there was a subtle thinning of his lips when I used the words "pin" and stripe" in the same sentence.

                  While Potato was swearing and cursing over the panels I started looking for the right person to tackle the exhaust and I eventually saw some artistry in metal that convinced me I had the right guy.........but it turns out the picture you've painstakingly built up in your head is absolutely worthless unless you have some way of communicating it. It can't have helped that there was a delay of a few weeks between our initial discussion and the actual job starting while he dealt with a mountain of work before getting stuck into my job. Mk 1 was along the right lines but bugged me in a few areas so the poor bugger had another crack at reading my mind and came up with this:



                  (you'll have to excuse the Triumph-esque oil leak, the bloody oil pressure switch is leaking internally, another is on the way)

                  And how good is Potato's work?! I thought the other panels had a perfectly fine pro paint job but Potato has well and truly shown them up, hope they don't look to daggy now, lol. And I finally got to play with the lovely titanium fairing fastener kit that has been languishing on the shelf for 2 years. Bought from and manufactured by an 851/888 Forum member for a very fair price they look much prettier than the clunky/chunky OEM fasteners. Nose cone shown here with a NOS clear Zero Gravity screen to replace the tinted screen which just didn't suit an old race bike:



                  Back to that exhaust: normally I've a pretty clear idea of what I want and like and don't really care what other people think, but this has got me a little stumped so I'd actually appreciate some outside opinions. I orginally had in mind that the line of the mufflers would be parallel to the lower line of the tail but in all the mucking around, rework and then the securing springs only being fitted on the underside of the mufflers and dragging the mufflers down a tad, it has resulted in a slightly different angle.

                  I can pivot the link pipes up like this:



                  But then there is no way of fitting the straps, and I think (although I'm not convinced) it looks a bit "off" tucked up too close to the tail:



                  Not to mention the "loud and proud" welds. Initial discussions had the welds being tidied up to be "invisible" but the extremely thin original "Arrow" bends at the muffler ends make this pretty tricky so the welds were heat treated to become more of a feature with a bit of colour to them. I was never after a Factory look, hence the Arrow cans, but it looks a bit more....um...steampunk, than I originally pictured. But now that I've gotten used to the fact that it doesn't exactly match the image in my head it has definitely grown on me. It'll be interesting to see how the lines/proportions work once I get the rest of the fairing fitted up.

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                  • #39
                    the muffler set in the 'Triumph esque oil leak" pic is the biscuit..

                    Follows wheel tangent.. no load.. how much sag is there with your carcass on the bike?

                    Leave the welds they add to the 'WTF?' look of the bike.. my 2c

                    Just use strip for the nec length to the muffler hangers..rubber mount to the subframe????

                    Great job so far... focus on the end result....fanbase is growing..;-)
                    " Imagination is the seed of life..."

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by GsxInShed View Post
                      the muffler set in the 'Triumph esque oil leak" pic is the biscuit..

                      Follows wheel tangent.. no load.. how much sag is there with your carcass on the bike?

                      Leave the welds they add to the 'WTF?' look of the bike.. my 2c

                      Just use strip for the nec length to the muffler hangers..rubber mount to the subframe????

                      Great job so far... focus on the end result....fanbase is growing..;-)
                      Thanks mate, for both the feedback and "tangent" comment. You've a bloody good eye, I had to put a ruler up to check against a photo and you're spot on....you may have hit on why it has grown on me.

                      The next tricky bit is forming some sort of belly pan to hold at least 3 litres of fluid. The fairings I have, as per the original panels and copies made today join under the engine, and even then only for a short section: back in the day dropped fluids were something people just made the best of, there was no requirement to capture them. So what to do? I've an old 996RS carbon belly pan that I'm hoping to to make use of. The photo's make it look better than it is, it's exhaust scorched in one area and has a delamination repair in another, but I think I can make it work, either tucked inside the main fairings or possibly (it's a long shot) mated to them....wish me luck!





                      Hmmmm, need to apply for a machine log book too, kinda important 'cos no racing will happen without it. Pretty nervous about that but I've done my best to stay within the spirit of the rules so will be interesting to see how that goes.

                      Speaking of racing, one very enjoyable box to tick recently was regaining my race licence: a couple of fun days at Collie later and it's job done. I really wasn't expecting to enjoy that lil' track as much as I did (thanks Trakdayz and MCRC!) but it was a blast, I'll actually be sad to lose the fun of turn 3 with the extension.

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                      • #41
                        Look forward to seeing it out and circulating. Congrats on the race license.
                        Sponsored by:

                        Billetta Imports, Motorcycle Panel & Paint, Pirelli, YAMALUBE

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                        • #42
                          Righto, so I'm thinking the most important box to tick now is the Historic Logbook: no Logbook = no race.

                          Having had virtually nothing to do with Historic's racing bar casting lustful glances at some of the machinery, and enjoying watching the weird and wonderful mix on track, I have absolutely no idea what to expect from this process. So I dowloaded the application form and noticed the estimated time frame for processing: 6 weeks. Hmmmm, best to get the process started and sort the pissy lil' detail jobs while I'm waiting, rather than the other way 'round.

                          I risk shooting myself in the foot though: you have to supply pic's of the bike, both sides, both faired and unfaired ready to race. I haven't sorted the belly pan, or fitted the case guards but I'm hoping they'll see it more as an exercise in verifying it really is an ol' tractor is not simply a Panigale in disguise, rather than sweating the little stuff which is handled at local scrutineering.

                          Time will tell.....and at least the process is started and I'll know where I stand.

                          As submitted (must be against a light coloured background, hence mugshot style):





                          And a couple more:





                          The pic's don't show it well but the "original" side panels don't quite match the front/tail/tank, and in the 4(?) years since I last had a good look at them they aren't in quite as good nick as I thought, so something else for Potato to work is magic on at some stage (insert my wife's sigh here).

                          Still to do:
                          Fit up bellypan
                          Sort air filter (tricky with Corsa air box)
                          Trim airbox to clear front tank mounts
                          Turn up plugs for the footpegs
                          Turn up spacer for rear tank mount
                          Install Power Commander (painful: needs exhaust/radiator/front engine mount removal and pivot engine to access under airbox)
                          Manufacture battery clamp
                          Investigate fouling front brake line
                          Re-route clutch line
                          Get a few temperature cycles into engine, then cover my balls and head for the dyno to set up the PC

                          And after that lil' lot I'll probably find it's all been a monumental waste of time, 'cos thanks to the Corsa intake the bloody thing has a turning circle rivalling the Queen Mary and it won't make it around the hairpin at Collie! Oh well, it's cheaper than therapy.....

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                          • #43
                            After reading this Ducati build thread (which is looking pretty impressive BTW), it's good to know my R1 went to someone who knows what they're doing 😊

                            Originally posted by slowpoke View Post
                            I'll actually be sad to lose the fun of turn 3 with the extension.
                            Yup, turns 3 and 4 - my favourite section of that track.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Kristy View Post
                              After reading this Ducati build thread (which is looking pretty impressive BTW), it's good to know my R1 went to someone who knows what they're doing 😊
                              Thanks Kristy....not sure about the "knows what he's doing" comment though, my wife would disagree on soooooooo many levels!

                              I'm still well and truly in love with your sweet R1, still get a buzz every time I open the shed door. It has been a bit of a mental battle though, being a recidivist tinkerer, the urge to mod is always there.....but realistically it needs bugger all, which is convenient seeing the the finances are stretched building the 851. So the cat has gone from the exhaust giving it a nice lil' crackle on the over run, and an as new '07/8 shock was a cheap fix for the renowned soft '06 unit so she holds a line better on corner exit. But otherwise it is as you left it and is just a honey: thank you.



                              Edit: sorry "Kristy" not Kirsty, damn having a similar named friend!

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                              • #45
                                Good to know she's going strong <3
                                Didn't want to sell her to just anybody - some dude without even his R-E wanted to buy it. Told him I wouldn't sell it to him. Would have have gotten more for it than I ended up getting but that's not the point with bikes you get attached to. Knowing she was going to a good home was important.

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