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something for the home welders to be aware of ???

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  • something for the home welders to be aware of ???

    Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article

    (mods wasnt sure whether to post here or in technical - move as you wish)

  • #2
    gnarly story...

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    • #3


      Looks like phosgene is the least of his worries.
      Probably inhaled a lot worse.

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      • #4
        I was told of a similar issue by a refrigeration guy. If you heat some coolant gasses - say the ones in domestic split systems - it can form phosgene. An example would be where you are jointing some coolant pipes over a gas burner. Nasty stuff!
        Dead Man's Hand
        Internationational Porter Protection Group
        Just call me Pat

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        • #5
          Any gas or liquid containing chlorine will create Phosgene when exposed to naked flame or when it is burnt. Commonly used in WWI and known to many as Mustard gas! As an older fridgy I have had brushes with the stuff when working on equipment, you will know it by the smell and it can burn your oesophagus and sits in your gut as it is heavier than air (stand on your head) All the older refrigerants and one still on sale R22, commonly used in A/C's and some refrigeration equipment will give off Phosgene when exposed to naked flames. R12 in older cars is also a problem.

          You should call someone in if you are decommissioning any old refrig or aircon equipment, for this reason and the heavy fines for releasing the refrigerant.

          There have even been cases of people having a ciggie with quantities of refrigerant in the area getting the Phosgene effect while sucking on their ciggie as the gas passes through the lit end.

          Forgot to mention, if using an open flame, the flame will turn green and then bright blue if in high concentration, turn it off and clear out.
          Last edited by chew; 05-08-2009, 07:15 PM. Reason: More info.
          They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

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          • #6
            Fack! I'm a welder & a bike mechanic, I'm constantly soaking in some chemical while breathing in another. This one made me think. Cheers for the heads up.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chew View Post
              Any gas or liquid containing chlorine will create Phosgene when exposed to naked flame or when it is burnt. Commonly used in WWI and known to many as Mustard gas! As an older fridgy I have had brushes with the stuff when working on equipment, you will know it by the smell and it can burn your oesophagus and sits in your gut as it is heavier than air (stand on your head) All the older refrigerants and one still on sale R22, commonly used in A/C's and some refrigeration equipment will give off Phosgene when exposed to naked flames. R12 in older cars is also a problem.

              You should call someone in if you are decommissioning any old refrig or aircon equipment, for this reason and the heavy fines for releasing the refrigerant.

              There have even been cases of people having a ciggie with quantities of refrigerant in the area getting the Phosgene effect while sucking on their ciggie as the gas passes through the lit end.

              Forgot to mention, if using an open flame, the flame will turn green and then bright blue if in high concentration, turn it off and clear out.

              I think you're confused. The presence of argon gas during welding is what produced the phosgene. You are thinking of chlorine gas, which is also poisonous, but not nearly as much. I inhaled a large amount of chlorine gas in a chemistry lab and had to be rushed to hospital, but the effects wore off far quicker.

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              • #8
                R22 makes me dizzyyyyyy
                Originally posted by Amac
                suck me on the hat you mole fucker, steroid affected me cock

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by polony View Post
                  I think you're confused. The presence of argon gas during welding is what produced the phosgene. You are thinking of chlorine gas, which is also poisonous, but not nearly as much. I inhaled a large amount of chlorine gas in a chemistry lab and had to be rushed to hospital, but the effects wore off far quicker.
                  If you did well in chemistry, (guessing not if you managed to get yourself rushed to hospital) you would have known from organic chem that chlorine containing organic substances produce mustard gas's bother biological weapon; phosgene when you "burn" them. That means chloroform when "burnt" becomes deadly. It is common in industrial products due to being a solvent.

                  Freons are refrigerants that are common, they have chlorine in them. Other substances exist. Chew would have had experience with them. Greenies don't like them though.

                  Chlorine gas is different (and less mean) to the phosgene and mustard gasses. Mustard gas has sulphur in it.

                  Are you saying argon the noble gas is a catalyst in this or attributing the reaction solely to it?
                  Last edited by T-Rex; 05-08-2009, 09:32 PM. Reason: should learn to proof read
                  Please contact the Administrator if your date of birth has changed.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chew View Post
                    Any gas or liquid containing chlorine will create Phosgene when exposed to naked flame or when it is burnt. Commonly used in WWI and known to many as Mustard gas! As an older fridgy I have had brushes with the stuff when working on equipment, you will know it by the smell and it can burn your oesophagus and sits in your gut as it is heavier than air (stand on your head) All the older refrigerants and one still on sale R22, commonly used in A/C's and some refrigeration equipment will give off Phosgene when exposed to naked flames. R12 in older cars is also a problem.

                    You should call someone in if you are decommissioning any old refrig or aircon equipment, for this reason and the heavy fines for releasing the refrigerant.

                    There have even been cases of people having a ciggie with quantities of refrigerant in the area getting the Phosgene effect while sucking on their ciggie as the gas passes through the lit end.

                    Forgot to mention, if using an open flame, the flame will turn green and then bright blue if in high concentration, turn it off and clear out.
                    Originally posted by polony View Post
                    I think you're confused. The presence of argon gas during welding is what produced the phosgene. You are thinking of chlorine gas, which is also poisonous, but not nearly as much. I inhaled a large amount of chlorine gas in a chemistry lab and had to be rushed to hospital, but the effects wore off far quicker.
                    Originally posted by Stormrider View Post
                    If you did well in chemistry, (guessing not if you managed to get yourself rushed to hospital) you would have known from organic chem that chlorine containing organic substances produce mustard gas's bother biological weapon; phosgene when you "burn" them. That means chloroform when "burnt" becomes deadly. It is common in industrial products due to being a solvent.

                    Freons are refrigerants that are common, they have chlorine in them. Other substances exist. Chew would have had experience with them. Greenies don't like them though.

                    Chlorine gas is different (and less mean) to the phosgene and mustard gasses. Mustard gas has sulphur in it.

                    Are you saying argon the noble gas is a catalyst in this or attributing the reaction solely to it?
                    Firstly
                    Thanks for the timely reminder to watch out for our own safety..

                    Secondly...
                    YOU guys are really fucktards..
                    You missed the point completely..
                    This is not Chemistry 101..

                    Its really about taking a little extra care so you make it home to your loved ones.. to your family and friends..

                    If all you have to do is argue semantics .. then fvck 0ff and get a life..
                    Norm
                    Its a Tour not a Race - Just don't get in my way when I'm Touring.

                    OzVFR.net MGP Tipping Mews News

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                    • #11
                      Why can't they discuss the chemistry involved in creating phosgene, in a thread created to make people aware of it?
                      Quit being a grumpy old cunt.
                      FTP

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                      • #12
                        Ehhh erm...

                        Is there a problem here gentlemen?

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                        • #13
                          this is intresting
                          when we had a drillers camp last year
                          a couple of offsiders were playing with crc brake cleaner ,writing their names on the ground with it and then lighting it up with a lighter to watch what they were writing go up in flames in a greeny blue fire ,looked pretty cool
                          well one offsider went to have a shower the others thought it would be funny to do a blow tourch thru the shower door and scare him
                          well it worked scared the crap out of him but it also made them all have trouble breathing after they got their breaths back they went to playing with the cleaner and fire one the writing side
                          well the guys had pretty bad head aches for the night and next day
                          so dont play with fire and crc brake cleaner
                          I HAD A BREEZE UP MY SHORTS AND IT FELT LIKE CHRISTMAS!!

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                          • #14
                            holy shit........
                            Our Father, Who art at Phillip Island, Hallowed be thy name
                            Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done
                            In the backroads as it is on the freeway
                            Give us this day our high-octane premium fuel
                            And forgive us our lanesplitting
                            As we forgive the four wheel drives, the volvos and the taxis
                            And lead us not into gravel corners
                            But deliver us from hand-held radars
                            For thine is thy leather, thy denim, thy Gore-Tex and thy Kevlar
                            Amen ORIGINAL POST BY DEB

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                            • #15
                              First rule to good welds, get it clean and dry!!

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