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2009 ZX6R Surging hard! Not good.

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  • 2009 ZX6R Surging hard! Not good.

    I have read the threads on this topic and they seem to suggest that this is a common Kawasaki issue.

    My surging is like the feeling of running out of gas, and it is much more severe.

    It comes on full lean mid corner and causes the bike to slide like it has no grip, I had a new tyre on and prior to that recorded my best practice time ever, so the feeling I was getting was good, confidence was good. It surges hard in third and fourth gears under load, like I am chopping the throttle.

    My surging is very severe and makes it unrideable. It is not just cruising speed at 10,000 rpm. The bike never really spends any time under 10,000.

    The bike has a full system Yoshi, PCV, bazzaz quickshifter, has 20,000 Kms, most of those road, has raced one season.

    I don't wish for the following to bias your educated opinion in anyway but I think it is relevant.

    In late 2013 I had the ECU repaired after a big crash, bike flipped in the air six times. The two middle secondary injectors weren't working and fried. One had too much resistance and the other no continuity so was constantly on, even on idle. So we replaced the injectors checked the rest of them, fitted a full system and PCV and it made 115.4 bhp atrw.

    So I am going to do the obvious stuff:

    1/ taken the ECU off which goes into the shop who repaired it tomorrow under 1 year warranty to get tested. Once I eliminate that then I will proceed as follows;

    2/ I will check continuity across the injectors.

    3/ I have already checked obvious plugs at the front end of the bike and the rectifier end.

    4/ remove airbox and check leads are in securely, check spark plugs. Clean air filter.

    5/ check the throttle bodies are sitting in correctly and no air leaks present.

    6/ road test with new fuel

    7/ clean fuel filter

    Have any racers / experienced road riders experienced this? I need to get the bike 100% ready by end of March latest so don't have a lot of time, or money to throw at this as racing Is bloody expensive. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers KB.
    Join RAM Motosport's Facebook page to follow our progress: https://www.facebook.com/pages/RAM-M...5324753?ref=hl

    Raj Sarin #180; Bike: ZX6R; Class: SSPT; Titles: AMCC Clubmans Champion #1 (1000+cc) [NZ 2011], Taupo Three Hour Endurance Race #2 (NZ 2011), Paeroa BOTS street race #9 in Kings (NZ 2012). Tracks raced: Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Manfield, Taupo, Barbagello (PB 60.3 on ZX6R), Collie (PB 47.4090 on ZX6R), Paeroa BOTS
    Sponsors: Motorlegal www.motorlegal.com.au United Oils

  • #2
    Tested your TPS?

    Comment


    • #3
      The sensor that tells the ECU it is lying on it´s side that maybe interferes? Have no idea whether your bike has one and where it sits but after being flipped violently maybe it has a knock and registers too early?

      Edit: It is nothing stupid like breather to the tank blocked, fuel lines kinked or anything that reduces the amount of fuel that can be provided at wide open right?
      Last edited by ripper1199; 09-02-2014, 09:10 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        2009 ZX6R Surging hard! Not good.

        If it's only happening at lean and not at all when upright....

        Maby look at the tip sensor and possibly bypass it to test it. It may be simply mounted in a shit spot?

        Maby it's a fuel pickup issue at lean (I know of another bike that has this issue) try run a full tank or have a look in the tank to make sure the pump and filter is all as it should be.

        P.s jealous as hell of the HP numbers. Gotta get me one of those one day.
        Voltron-Evo. https://www.facebook.com/?_rdr=p#!/voltronmotorcycles

        Comment


        • #5
          Just get a thou if you want hp...

          +1 check the fuel pump too, might be getting air in the system, also check for any kinked hoses and make sure that air can get in your tank easily enough - if too big a vacuum was created in their it could cause issues.

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          • #6
            2009 ZX6R Surging hard! Not good.

            Just to clarify the surging happens at lean, exiting the basin and also under power/ load. Especially violent exiting the basin 3rd 4th 5th ... I thought it was the clutch play so mucked about with that on the fly. Seemed to go for 2 laps then came back. I'm hoping it's something silly like a lose plug.

            yes I have checked the TPS it's secured properly. There are no error codes either. That may be misleading though if the ECU is at fault hence why I'm eliminating that first.

            ps. The left cylinder no1 runs at 114 deg and the others at 125 deg or off a degree or two at most, after a 2 minute idle.
            leakdown test is on the cards. Don't have the tool to do this though.
            Last edited by KiwiBiker; 09-02-2014, 09:16 PM.
            Join RAM Motosport's Facebook page to follow our progress: https://www.facebook.com/pages/RAM-M...5324753?ref=hl

            Raj Sarin #180; Bike: ZX6R; Class: SSPT; Titles: AMCC Clubmans Champion #1 (1000+cc) [NZ 2011], Taupo Three Hour Endurance Race #2 (NZ 2011), Paeroa BOTS street race #9 in Kings (NZ 2012). Tracks raced: Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Manfield, Taupo, Barbagello (PB 60.3 on ZX6R), Collie (PB 47.4090 on ZX6R), Paeroa BOTS
            Sponsors: Motorlegal www.motorlegal.com.au United Oils

            Comment


            • #7
              So surging happens at all throttle openings?

              If it's still surging in 5th exiting the basin surely your are more upright at that time?

              - - - Updated - - -

              Is the surge a "hard" surge like you are being killswitched, or a softer surge like running out of fuel?

              Comment


              • #8
                2009 ZX6R Surging hard! Not good.

                Yes it happens in a straight line too. It's not a lean angle related thing I don't think.
                Rich, it's a softer surge like running out of fuel.... It's not like its at a particular rpm even, happens constantly to the red line.
                Join RAM Motosport's Facebook page to follow our progress: https://www.facebook.com/pages/RAM-M...5324753?ref=hl

                Raj Sarin #180; Bike: ZX6R; Class: SSPT; Titles: AMCC Clubmans Champion #1 (1000+cc) [NZ 2011], Taupo Three Hour Endurance Race #2 (NZ 2011), Paeroa BOTS street race #9 in Kings (NZ 2012). Tracks raced: Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Manfield, Taupo, Barbagello (PB 60.3 on ZX6R), Collie (PB 47.4090 on ZX6R), Paeroa BOTS
                Sponsors: Motorlegal www.motorlegal.com.au United Oils

                Comment


                • #9
                  2009 ZX6R Surging hard! Not good.

                  Bad fuel or water in fuel?
                  Has it only done it this fuel tank/fill?

                  Could also be bad tuning?
                  Voltron-Evo. https://www.facebook.com/?_rdr=p#!/voltronmotorcycles

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So it's sounding like fuel getting into the cylinders issue, not a no spark issue...

                    I would disconnect the PCV to eliminate that...

                    Then start with the easy stuff, as has been said fuel level, fuel lines, fuel filter all the basic stuff that gets the fuel to the cylinders...

                    Then move onto the more advanced stuff, injectors, sensors and ECU...

                    If you already have the ECU out then not a problem testing, worse that happens is you find it is good and it costs a few bucks, at least you will have confirmed it one way or the other and can move on...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i had similar issue at 4+2 day issue throttle bodies had come out and moved forward once fixed still had issue ...changed spark plugs and perfect again. coming outta corners was just dead sometimes worked sometimes didnt. But check ya plugs something soo simple just one could have gone to shit.
                      #96

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                      • #12
                        I am not familiar with the ECU on ths bike but when I modified my exhaust I had to programme a tune into the ECU that would bypass the O2 sensors otherwise it would run in closed loop. My symptoms were the same as what you are experiencing. So when you had your ECU repaired did they load the correct tune back into it?
                        What it can't reach it spits at

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                        • #13
                          Open the switch block which houses you kill switch and check the solder connections as well, we had a GSXR which did something similar, would idle and run fine but once out on the track the vibration at the bars was enough to move the wire within the solder join, cutting it in and out.
                          Trying to think of a wise and sincere signature quote, but the only words that leap to mind are, "TITTY SPRINKLES"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by speedmaster View Post
                            I am not familiar with the ECU on ths bike but when I modified my exhaust I had to programme a tune into the ECU that would bypass the O2 sensors otherwise it would run in closed loop. My symptoms were the same as what you are experiencing. So when you had your ECU repaired did they load the correct tune back into it?
                            Unsure of that. I do know that I have an active O2 sensor installed. With the PCV I also got an O2 air controlled module that was apparently required for my model of bike, it was all professionally installed and tuned.

                            Originally posted by TurboR1 View Post
                            Open the switch block which houses you kill switch and check the solder connections as well, we had a GSXR which did something similar, would idle and run fine but once out on the track the vibration at the bars was enough to move the wire within the solder join, cutting it in and out.
                            Interesting, I will check this kill switch block tonight and also trace the wires to the quick shifter ensure they aren't spliced or anything silly.

                            Originally posted by Monty View Post
                            i had similar issue at 4+2 day issue throttle bodies had come out and moved forward once fixed still had issue ...changed spark plugs and perfect again. coming outta corners was just dead sometimes worked sometimes didnt. But check ya plugs something soo simple just one could have gone to shit.
                            Will check the throttle bodies are sitting in properly and check plugs. I did replace them with NGK irridiums approx 10,000 kms ago.

                            Originally posted by pottz View Post
                            Bad fuel or water in fuel?
                            Has it only done it this fuel tank/fill?

                            Could also be bad tuning?
                            Just happened on the second last session. Prior to that it was beautiful. Yes only this gas which was BP 98 octane.

                            Got to remember it was recently tuned with 2 new injectors installed, a full system and PCV did one race and 2 tuning days and that's all.
                            Join RAM Motosport's Facebook page to follow our progress: https://www.facebook.com/pages/RAM-M...5324753?ref=hl

                            Raj Sarin #180; Bike: ZX6R; Class: SSPT; Titles: AMCC Clubmans Champion #1 (1000+cc) [NZ 2011], Taupo Three Hour Endurance Race #2 (NZ 2011), Paeroa BOTS street race #9 in Kings (NZ 2012). Tracks raced: Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Manfield, Taupo, Barbagello (PB 60.3 on ZX6R), Collie (PB 47.4090 on ZX6R), Paeroa BOTS
                            Sponsors: Motorlegal www.motorlegal.com.au United Oils

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              BP 98 and iridium plugs could well be your problem...

                              Both together is a recipe for trouble...

                              Get yourself some platinum racing plugs or similar and use a cleaner burning fuel, it would be a great combination if you were running 12psi boost though...
                              Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

                              when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

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