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How to pass the RE PDA??

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  • #16
    The rules have changed in NSW but you can still ride a motorcycle unsupervised on L plates in an area where there are no motorcycle instructors.

    Personally it's all about attitude to me if you have driven a car for a few years and rode motorcycles off road you can teach yourself, if you have neither of those two best to use an instructor!

    The fact is even with professional instruction people are still dying on sportsbikes trying to find their limits before they should even be on them!

    The most idiotic statement i still hear is people need to "find their limits" on a sportsbike most simply find death trying sadly!

    https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/lic...r/learner.html

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Kristy View Post

      Disclaimer: I don't mean to be argumentative, but I've been working at home for 2 months and haven't had a good debate in a while 😄

      Two main points are circulating in my head in response to your post:
      Originally posted by Kristy View Post
      • The bottom line is having a licence is a privilege, not a right and riding a motorcycle is inherently more dangerous than driving a car. Having held previous licences doesn't mean you should be able to jump the queue as you imply, or at least, suggest is unfair. In fact, maybe those who don't have licences should be prioritised. Furthermore, having had a car licence for 8 years doesn't contribute 8 years of value to riding a motorcycle. It is a whole other world and the learning curve is steep, and specific to riding a motorcycle. However, having 1 year of motorcycling experience is immeasurable to developing skills in relation to driving a car, mainly in the roadcraft sense because as a bike rider you anticipate what other drivers are going to do because it's your life on the line. In a car, if someone changes lanes into you, there's likely just panel damage so you don't invest much time in developing defensive/anticipatory driving skills. Monetary costs, while substantial, still come back to having a licence is privilege not a right. Motorcycling is not for everyone; I know clumsy people who struggle to walk on flat pavement with flat shoes, stone cold sober. Costing decent money would likely dissuade those who probably shouldn't be on a bike. Speaking of monetary expense and rules, you think WA has it tough - in Germany it costs between $3322 - $5315 to obtain your car licence, which includes classes and an 8-hour first aid course (https://www.insider.com/countries-co...parison-2018-9). Same website lists Australia at $177. Presumably they have applied the same criteria when determining cost, and to the same point of the licencing process. Stricter, and costlier licencing no doubt produces better drivers and they get to play on the Autobahn at unlimited speeds with a much lower fatality rate than us. If, in Australia as you said, a learner had 20 lessons @ $80, cost is $1600.
      • You broadened the justification to include the overall licencing saga, not the original question about justifying not being able to ride without a shadow, so while it seems to add weight to your argument, there's a lot of info unrelated to the original question e.g. you talk about converting R-E to international licences, having to pay $160 for a test due to instructors booking out tests etc.
      Out of all your points, the only ones that relate to reasons in relation to not having a shadow are monetary (needing to pay instructors for time on the road) and that you don't get riding tips from shadows? Sure, I get that practicing the basics like o-turns in car parks (after having learnt the necessary skills) are certainly better use of your time and money than paying an instructor. As a shadow though I would protect the rider by strategically placing myself, watching the movements of cars and making judgements about whether they were dickheads or not, and I would offer tips with the proviso that if anything I say contradicts your instructor, disregard my advice. Based on their skill level, we would ride on the road or in a car park/practice whatever they wanted to practice. The rest of your points were about the system in general. Since I started riding a hundred years ago, it would now be far easier to get shadows due to online groups (I didn't know anyone who rode when I was learning). Most shadows want nothing for their time; I never did but they are looking out for you with an experienced eye. It's said if you have $1 to spend and you spend 90 cents of it focusing on how to ride as it's not yet second nature you only have 10c to devote to watching that around you. The shadow can spent a lot of their focus on you and your surrounds as they have more money to spend on awareness because a bike is fairly second nature to them.

      Differences in vehicle aside, should we also be able to drive a car on the road without a licence while we're practicing for our test? Is there a limit to the type of vehicle? Can we go drive semis?

      Out of interest, why did you fail the test? I assume accumulation of points as you said you would have passed under the old system. Maybe it was made stricter because it was deemed not to be discerning enough as to who actually exhibited a) compliance with the road rules, and b) the skills to survive (at least until they turned the first corner out of the licencing centre and were no longer licencing's problem). Honestly, the test is piss easy - it's about being able to a) ride a little bit; and, b) tick all the boxes they want to see (i.e. rotating your head pretty much 180 degrees to make it obvious that you're looking up the side street). It doesn't test real world stuff like WTF is counter-steering and how can it help you perform an evasive measure should Sleepy Susan turn across your path. The person you refer to that failed 3 times - maybe that's an illustration of why the tests are important. In the work environment you have to be instructed, supervised and deemed competent to perform certain tasks that are high risk or technical in nature before being let loose; this isn't any different. Similarly, if you can't pass the bike test, you shouldn't be on the road alone until deemed competent.

      Edit: re-read original post - failed due to not having sufficient buffer between bus. Surely what was deemed a suitable buffer in the old testing system is the same as current system?


      So you deem that a person who has never been on the road to have the same calibre as someone driving a car for 8 years......awww man, I guess my experience on the road like knowing my road rules well, some experience as to how cars behave etc all that theory stuff mean nothing. I am treated the same as a person who is still leaning what a 'STOP' sign is?

      Let me provide an alternate example to your viewpoint. If two chefs were training in Japanese cuisine, one with 20 years of chef experience (trained in English cuisine) and another who has never held a knife would be treated the same? LOL. I am pretty sure that the 20 years experienced chef has some credentials in cooking similar to how a car driver with experience has.

      Without making personal attacks, your Germany argument is plain ridiculous. Sure lets compare Germany with a population of 80 million with an EXCELLENT public transport and 1/22 the size of Australia. They are actively trying to dissuade people due to lack of space. Russia is $30 and they need people to travel due the vast country. Do you see the connection?? Its nothing to do with priviledge lol . Why don't we revoke your licence and see how long you can survive with just Public transport. People in Germany can rely solely on Public transport but people in Australia cannot. Thats why its cheaper as the govt is encouraging driving. Its a need NOT priviledge for us.

      I clearly talked about the broken licencing system which also includes the test to get a R licence and not riding without shadows which leads to the $160 saga.

      100 years ago, the licencing tests were ridiculously easy to pass also…… The new system fails people on the spot.

      If you think the test is easy, why don’t you go for a retest to see if your still a competent rider? I would recommend my mates at PDA Mirrabokka to test you. Surely if you pass, I am happy to swallow my words but if you fail, maybe your not as good a rider as you claim and it was piss easy 100 years ago when you did your test? I would recommend the R test too where you fail now with a single mistake… Best of luck!!

      On the note, I am now going to petition the Govt to make the drivers licence valid of only 10 years and retest everyone after 10 years. Let me see the outrage then from some of the older riders, who are going to struggle to pass under the new system.

      Honestly, its looking at posts like this that makes me shudder. I don’t wish to comment on this anymore as some of the arguments are just plain ridiculous.

      Comment


      • #18
        Finally, some butthurt back on PSB, I never thought I'd see the day again!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mandok View Post
          [FONT=Calibri]

          So you deem that a person who has never been on the road to have the same calibre as someone driving a car for 8 years......awww man, I guess my experience on the road like knowing my road rules well, some experience as to how cars behave etc all that theory stuff mean nothing. I am treated the same as a person who is still leaning what a 'STOP' sign is?

          Let me provide an alternate example to your viewpoint. If two chefs were training in Japanese cuisine, one with 20 years of chef experience (trained in English cuisine) and another who has never held a knife would be treated the same? LOL. I am pretty sure that the 20 years experienced chef has some credentials in cooking similar to how a car driver with experience has.


          Honestly, its looking at posts like this that makes me shudder. I don’t wish to comment on this anymore as some of the arguments are just plain ridiculous.
          including your own if this is any example of it...

          let me provide another alternative example, if i've got 20 years in sales and marketing is a university going to dum down the final exam and hand me a degree because of that? NOPE its an accreditation and everyone must achieve the same result or the gene pool of sales and marketing people coming out of it would be weakened down, we cant have that and from what ive seen its pretty low already...... but because of "prior knowledge and experience" should be easier to achieve the understanding and practical skills required.

          Kristy is right, a license is not a right it is something you can attain but be taken away if you dont behave so it is a privilege, its also given to people who can achieve the standard required, which you clearly havent so you need to get your head around that one, just suck it up, learn from the experience and have another go.






          I cant help it if your perceptions don't match my reality


          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Heretic View Post

            including your own if this is any example of it...

            let me provide another alternative example, if i've got 20 years in sales and marketing is a university going to dum down the final exam and hand me a degree because of that? NOPE its an accreditation and everyone must achieve the same result or the gene pool of sales and marketing people coming out of it would be weakened down, we cant have that and from what ive seen its pretty low already...... but because of "prior knowledge and experience" should be easier to achieve the understanding and practical skills required.

            Kristy is right, a license is not a right it is something you can attain but be taken away if you dont behave so it is a privilege, its also given to people who can achieve the standard required, which you clearly havent so you need to get your head around that one, just suck it up, learn from the experience and have another go.





            I feel Heretic and Kristy may be right here having seen the amount of crashes and crosses on the road in WA especially among sportsbike riders the test here is obviously not hard enough!

            After a brief time off bikes i can tell you they are quicker than ever however they are harder to crash as they do everything so well but if you get it wrong you will end up maimed or dead!

            The most common crashes on sportsbikes here are solo vehicle crashes usually failure to take the corner, the most important thing in my view and others especially over east is to learn to trail brake.

            Things have changed what worked for me in the 70's is no longer so relevant today just enjoy your riding experience from entry to retirement and stay alive i say this sincerely, as for myself i am a bit of a lair a [email protected]#t in some people's view and a show off in other's but i have been riding big bikes since 1978 and have seen much!

            Get some training and live a long safe life riding life on motorcycles my friend you have much to learn!

            llbuono.

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            • #21
              I’m just honoured OP deigned to reply to my mediocre content when it clearly causes much distress. I do have some follow up comments on OP’s reply but I really can’t be bothered with the effort in relation to the original content as tangents will be thrown in, inferences made (like me claiming to be a good rider) and reiterating that already having a licence for another vehicle should preference/fast-track you over others. As for roadcraft of cars (pretty much non-existent) vs. bikes, I guess that’ll become apparent when on the road more. Despite having held a car licence for at least 6 to 7 years prior it took me quite some time based on experiencing different situations unique to motorcycling in order to hone my roadcraft to anything remotely resembling something useful.

              As for new content, I do however agree with re-testing but in terms of implementation it would be political suicide as driving = independence. People’s parents/grandparents would pretty much be off the road overnight. So to avoid the political suicide they’ll say those over say, 65 at the time of implementation will be exempt from re-testing. In the mean-time, someone over 65 plants their foot on the accelerator instead of the brake and makes a hood ornament of a pedestrian. Fan is covered in shit. Always the case when something is applied but exemptions made to avoid backlash.

              Cost wise, with the lack of test spots available now it would never happen without substantial funding increases from Government, or we, the licence holders, pay for it. Even if additional funding comes from Government, the Government doesn’t have money – it has our money, so we will inevitably pay for it through increased taxes, an additional charge on our licence or payment upfront for the re-test. I don’t have an issue with it costing $ though – as I’ve said, attaining a licence is a privilege, not a right and shouldn’t be a “for life” thing.

              Comment


              • #22
                I love it when people like Mandok come onto a forum where members have extensive knowledge/experience and ask a question. Get pissed off with the answer they received because it’s not what they wanted to hear. Then argue with those people and still don’t understand the point people are making to them.

                It must be the new generation that thinks they are entitled to anything they want and they want it now and they can’t wait.

                Guess what Mandok your not good enough to pass the test, try again as has been said in another post. I personally think the test is to easy. Everyone here is trying to help you stay alive. Too many people have lost their lives on bikes.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I understand flight can I go and fly a 747 please?
                  Smoke me a kipper...I'll be home in time for breakfast

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BusaSteve View Post
                    I understand flight can I go and fly a 747 please?
                    I hear there's a few grounded at the moment... help yourself.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BusaSteve View Post
                      I understand flight can I go and fly a 747 please?
                      Just concentrate on buying a new bike my old friend and we can go for a ride, these new bikes may be something else to ride but to do a stator at 73,000 kays is new to me.

                      I own a few bikes now if you lived in NSW i would lend you one PM me for my new mob number regards llbuono.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BusaSteve View Post
                        I understand flight can I go and fly a 747 please?
                        Are you Muslim?
                        #1 Gold Ticket Holder for the Barfridge Fan Club
                        Originally posted by Phildo
                        Noted. We'll check back on that one in three years
                        Originally posted by filbert
                        i'll pretend you didn't know she was 13

                        98 BADASS TITANIUM BLACKBIRD - Past bikes 1982 XS250 Yamaha & 1983 CB750F with 900 motor
                        Ozblackbird.net Administrator

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Para045 View Post

                          Are you Muslim?
                          No he is just an Englishman who loves his dogs, add to that he is a really nice guy a bit like yourself Para045!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Kelly.999 View Post

                            No he is just an Englishman who loves his dogs, add to that he is a really nice guy a bit like yourself Para045!
                            Who's photos are you stealing now old man?
                            In sterquiliniis invenitur.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Who knows.
                              Last edited by Kelly.999; 18-06-2020, 08:33 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Kelly.999 View Post

                                No he is just an Englishman who loves his dogs, add to that he is a really nice guy a bit like yourself Para045!
                                Ha ha nah mate I know Steve well, he's a great bloke and I have ridden with him many times I was jokingly referencing the 911 attacks

                                Linky
                                The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. Fifteen of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, two were from the United Arab Emirates, one from Lebanon, and one from Egypt.[1] The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with three or four "muscle hijackers", who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.

                                The first hijackers to arrive in the United States were Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who settled in San Diego County, California, in January 2000. They were followed by three hijacker-pilots, Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ziad Jarrah in mid-2000 to undertake flight training in South Florida. The fourth hijacker-pilot, Hani Hanjour, arrived in San Diego in December 2000. The rest of the "muscle hijackers" arrived in early- and mid-2001.
                                #1 Gold Ticket Holder for the Barfridge Fan Club
                                Originally posted by Phildo
                                Noted. We'll check back on that one in three years
                                Originally posted by filbert
                                i'll pretend you didn't know she was 13

                                98 BADASS TITANIUM BLACKBIRD - Past bikes 1982 XS250 Yamaha & 1983 CB750F with 900 motor
                                Ozblackbird.net Administrator

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