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  • #31
    Originally posted by Para045 View Post
    was jokingly referencing the 911 attacks
    Speaking of references:



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    • #32
      The level of competancy needed to stay alive on the roads today in traffic has risen & the level of testing has not risen with it.

      When you add the entitled views of kids these days wanting everything yesterday you see threads like these often.

      All the people on here have given the guy good advice with the best of intentions sadly he has disregarded it and added conjecture of his own.

      Good luck my friend and take care.


      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by datsikk View Post

        In an EMERGENCY, you need to stop the bike not be stuffing around with the gears. I sort off understand why you might go down but....(sounds like your instructor is out of touch with the examination procedure)

        Why on earth would anyone be allowed to ride unsupervised without a licence? What would be the point in getting a licence if you can ride around without a shadow and no licence?
        actually you need to be in first when you stop if you need to get out of the way of the car behind you barreling up your ass, This was the old reasoning for the old test which I agree with
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Originally posted by whowalks View Post

          actually you need to be in first when you stop if you need to get out of the way of the car behind you barreling up your ass, This was the old reasoning for the old test which I agree with
          When i got my K class licence in WA in the late seventies the requirement was you changed down to first while emergency braking.

          For those old enough to remember the K class was for an unlimited motorcycle in 1979 they made new riders get an l class for 12 months which allowed them to ride motorcycles up to 250cc which you had to hold for 12 months before you got your K class.

          You also had to do figure eights instead of O turns and hill starts sometimes with some guys saying the assessors would place a matchbox behind your rear tyre.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Kelly.999 View Post

            When i got my K class licence in WA in the late seventies the requirement was you changed down to first while emergency braking.

            For those old enough to remember the K class was for an unlimited motorcycle in 1979 they made new riders get an l class for 12 months which allowed them to ride motorcycles up to 250cc which you had to hold for 12 months before you got your K class.

            You also had to do figure eights instead of O turns and hill starts sometimes with some guys saying the assessors would place a matchbox behind your rear tyre.
            +1 When I got my licence back in the mid 80's it was the same although it was an L Class not an I Class for 250 but all the rest was the same
            #1 Gold Ticket Holder for the Barfridge Fan Club
            Originally posted by Phildo
            Noted. We'll check back on that one in three years
            Originally posted by filbert
            i'll pretend you didn't know she was 13

            98 BADASS TITANIUM BLACKBIRD - Past bikes 1982 XS250 Yamaha & 1983 CB750F with 900 motor
            Ozblackbird.net Administrator

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Para045 View Post

              +1 When I got my licence back in the mid 80's it was the same although it was an L Class not an I Class for 250 but all the rest was the same
              I have been riding a long time since 1978 seen much but one thing remains the same a shame i am the last of my friends.....

              Comment


              • #37
                Hi there.

                Just received my R-E permit and I think the laws are a little overly restrictive as well. There is really not much I disagree with overall but the legislation is a pretty blunt instrument. There should be an adult class of learner for someone who has their full C class license for over 10 years i reckon. A young person who is perhaps considering getting a bike as their first form of transport has a two fold problem. They don't have any experience on the road and they also have to learn how to ride their bike. I am nearly 40 and have been on the road for more than 20 years, all I have to do is learn to ride the bike and if there a different set of hazards to which I need adjust then the time in which I can assimilate the difference is much faster than a young person with no experience on the roads. For someone like me I feel like it should be instructor based entirely. By that I mean when you have accrued enough lessons that an instructor says you can ride on the roads safely then you should be able to do the HPT and the practical and off you go, no time limit, no six months...nothing. If you do the practical and the instructor fails you for one reason or another then you just have to keep going back until your ready, but otherwise. I find that the biggest detriment in my case is that I cannot practice, I'm not talking about anything unreasonable even if I was restricted to just driving on roads 50-70Kms/hr, hell even just around my block, at least then I can practice starting and stopping on hills, gearing up and down smoothly, emergency braking and slow speed maneuvers without worrying about having hassles with the fuzz. It would be very handy. Also I feel that they should stagger the size of the bike you can ride. Restricted to 650 max for the first year, 650 to 1200 for the second and then open class. My vulcan is perfect in my opinion for a LAMS bike, handles the hwy well enough, perfect in regular traffic a good overall bike. There are times with work where I get the opportunity to travel to Bunbury or Bussleton and whilst I could take the 650 when I am ready for that kind of a journey ( right now I most certainly am not) I feel like thats kinda asking a lot from it. A 900 or something like that would handle it better I rekon. Just my two cents. Keen to know some other thoughts from experienced riders to see if i'm out of touch with reality or some such.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Not here to ridicule anyone.

                  In the wrong hands, you say. What does that even mean exactly, in the wrong hands. Dinner forks are also dangerous in the wrong hands. Are you the judge whose bike is in the wrong hands and furthermore how would someone, such as the government who administers the tests determine if a bike in the wrong hands? What is the test for that? How do you quantify something as abstract that to make it remotely measurable for testing, or are we talking about an "X Factor" type of thing. " I couldn't say exactly but I know it when I see it" Are you referring to the attitude of the rider or the competency of the rider, or neither. Are these fully qualified riders who pass me on the Tonkin Hwy when they are weaving lanes at 30-40Kms over the speed limit like they're Valentino Rossi, is their bike in the wrong hands? If in comparison to them I have no experience on a bike but obey all the laws and limits, does that mean my bike is the right hands? Can you even answer any of these questions?

                  Regarding riding beyond their limits, How do you also quantify that. Are you referring to reckless driving such as drifting across a lane on a blind corner so you can take it at speed? Are you defying general common sense, is that what you mean? Suppose my limits are that I can't operate a vehicle safely above Hwy speeds, if I obey the speed limit, like the government assumes you will when you use the roads, then what does that even matter, I will never find out until I push it further, I might never do that. I might do that once and get away with it, I might do it once and die. I am yet to see a sign on any road or Hwy that stipulates that learners must travel at different speeds than experienced drivers, there would be some pretty big signs around I reckon.

                  Everyone has to start somewhere, usually from the beginning! do you disagree with the notion that with proper instruction a basic road competency can be achieved on a motor bike, the other states believe that there is and i'm sure they have some evidence to support their stance. I'm going to suggest to you that if have experience on the roads and know the road rules that once you have learnt to properly and safely operate your bike that there is no reason you should not be able to proceed and further more it's reasonable to say that the people who are responsible for lobbying for the current laws most likely were not legally required to have a shadow, they're still alive as far I know. Out of curiosity were you required to have a shadow? I'm sure there are riders who heaps of experience who still have accidents on bikes, same as in cars, experience has little to do with accidents.Experience helps no doubt but I still see drivers older than me tailgating and speeding and other things as well. You can get killed riding a push bike at speed on the streets. I can get on a push bike right now ride down the road with traffic and no one would stop me. I suggest to you that I am slightly less visible than a motor bike and because i'm not matching the speed of traffic a little more dangerous. On a rainy day you might because you are an experienced rider you are less apt than me per se to slip in the wet but you can't of course say that you won't, your certainly not immune to it. It seems that you hold the view that without the benevolent shadows around we would inhabit a world of chaos, where learner riders cant ride straight and ride against traffic with their gear and helmet on backwards causing all sorts of mayhem and mischief.

                  Also crashing in a car is more than an inconvenience as you put it. Plenty of those crosses on our roads belong to the drivers of cars and although there is a statistical disparity because of the extra protection a car provides there are very bad crashes were riders were lucky and minor car crashes where drivers were not. Is inherent that when you drive a car or ride a MC you are accepting it comes with a certain percentage of risk. It will never be true that only learners crash on the roads. You can have been been driving or riding for 50 years without ever having had a close call in any way and you still accept 12% risk I think for a car and 30 odd percent from memory for a bike. Regardless!

                  Only someone who is insane would agree that jumping on bike without proper instruction is a smart thing to do, but it ain't rocket science either. It is realistically for the average of people, somewhere in between those two extremes.


                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ShadowedRider View Post
                    Not here to ridicule anyone.

                    In the wrong hands, you say. What does that even mean exactly, in the wrong hands. Dinner forks are also dangerous in the wrong hands. Are you the judge whose bike is in the wrong hands and furthermore how would someone, such as the government who administers the tests determine if a bike in the wrong hands? What is the test for that? How do you quantify something as abstract that to make it remotely measurable for testing, or are we talking about an "X Factor" type of thing. " I couldn't say exactly but I know it when I see it" Are you referring to the attitude of the rider or the competency of the rider, or neither. Are these fully qualified riders who pass me on the Tonkin Hwy when they are weaving lanes at 30-40Kms over the speed limit like they're Valentino Rossi, is their bike in the wrong hands? If in comparison to them I have no experience on a bike but obey all the laws and limits, does that mean my bike is the right hands? Can you even answer any of these questions?

                    Regarding riding beyond their limits, How do you also quantify that. Are you referring to reckless driving such as drifting across a lane on a blind corner so you can take it at speed? Are you defying general common sense, is that what you mean? Suppose my limits are that I can't operate a vehicle safely above Hwy speeds, if I obey the speed limit, like the government assumes you will when you use the roads, then what does that even matter, I will never find out until I push it further, I might never do that. I might do that once and get away with it, I might do it once and die. I am yet to see a sign on any road or Hwy that stipulates that learners must travel at different speeds than experienced drivers, there would be some pretty big signs around I reckon.

                    Everyone has to start somewhere, usually from the beginning! do you disagree with the notion that with proper instruction a basic road competency can be achieved on a motor bike, the other states believe that there is and i'm sure they have some evidence to support their stance. I'm going to suggest to you that if have experience on the roads and know the road rules that once you have learnt to properly and safely operate your bike that there is no reason you should not be able to proceed and further more it's reasonable to say that the people who are responsible for lobbying for the current laws most likely were not legally required to have a shadow, they're still alive as far I know. Out of curiosity were you required to have a shadow? I'm sure there are riders who heaps of experience who still have accidents on bikes, same as in cars, experience has little to do with accidents.Experience helps no doubt but I still see drivers older than me tailgating and speeding and other things as well. You can get killed riding a push bike at speed on the streets. I can get on a push bike right now ride down the road with traffic and no one would stop me. I suggest to you that I am slightly less visible than a motor bike and because i'm not matching the speed of traffic a little more dangerous. On a rainy day you might because you are an experienced rider you are less apt than me per se to slip in the wet but you can't of course say that you won't, your certainly not immune to it. It seems that you hold the view that without the benevolent shadows around we would inhabit a world of chaos, where learner riders cant ride straight and ride against traffic with their gear and helmet on backwards causing all sorts of mayhem and mischief.

                    Also crashing in a car is more than an inconvenience as you put it. Plenty of those crosses on our roads belong to the drivers of cars and although there is a statistical disparity because of the extra protection a car provides there are very bad crashes were riders were lucky and minor car crashes where drivers were not. Is inherent that when you drive a car or ride a MC you are accepting it comes with a certain percentage of risk. It will never be true that only learners crash on the roads. You can have been been driving or riding for 50 years without ever having had a close call in any way and you still accept 12% risk I think for a car and 30 odd percent from memory for a bike. Regardless!

                    Only someone who is insane would agree that jumping on bike without proper instruction is a smart thing to do, but it ain't rocket science either. It is realistically for the average of people, somewhere in between those two extremes.

                    I really wasn't going to reply to your post and my views carry very little weight on here anyway but some of the views on here about me have sunk in....

                    Anyway i will tell you i have been a hoon before the term meant anything i have seen people crash dozens of times around me and i have owned over 40 large motorcycles i consider myself a dirt racer first and road rider second.

                    You are going down the wrong path my friend and you may not have the incredible amount of luck i have had on motorcycles most of my friends killed themselves on bikes and this state kills more riders than any other.....

                    Tomorrow i am going on a memorial ride a father organised 11 years ago for his son who crashed a bike identical to mine and died the pain the man goes through every year is immeasurable.

                    I ask you sincerely to learn properly ride safely and stay alive you have your whole life ahead of you i am an old man so i have had the privilege of getting old a lot of people don't....

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