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  • Soft Seize?

    What does a soft seize feel like?
    Was riding over the narrows on the 24th at 90 indicated(true around 80) about 2:45pm when felt a power loss, then it picked up, then a longer power loss, then a total power loss, when I clutched in, it stopped dead. 5 min later was all good to go, but didn't seem to want to rev/somewhat hesitant...
    Could this have been a soft seize, or more along the lines of fuel starvation/electrical?
    Yes, around 1L of Synthetic Motul in the oil tank
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  • #2
    Is this an original Vespa or a retro...I would suspect its more of a fuel related problem since it started up again...but if it is a two stroke then you could have had a light seize. If so I would not be riding it again until the head and barrel have been off for a look see. A mate had a CZ do exactly the same...a light seize and we were able to repair it with virtually no major work involved.

    If its a four stroke and the amount of oil is correct then I would be looking for fuel delivery problems...could be as simple as a vacuum in the tank or a blocked filter.

    Good luck
    Smoke me a kipper...I'll be home in time for breakfast

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    • #3
      Does sound like a heat/soft seize from my experience, may have run lean on fuel or oil, gotten hot then tightened up but still start again once it cools off...

      Run the numbers, a couple of gaskets and a few hours to a day to strip it down and check for problems versus possible catastrophic engine failure if left unchecked.
      Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

      when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

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      • #4
        WHS^^^

        Does sound like a soft seize...

        If you can remove the exhaust and look thru the exhaust port at the piston you can often see a soft seize caused by lean running by the fact that the top edge of the piston at the exhaust port shows signs of melting...

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        • #5
          Yeh..nah

          Pull the spark plug,mate.... have a look at the porcelain part near the electrode...??

          Look like a spray of pepper? grainy/black on light grey??

          Oh oh. You can see the piston through exhaust port..pipe removed..( might need a mirror and torch) any mark-scratch on piston is bad...bro...good luck.

          How did you do that-- Rich...?
          Last edited by GsxInShed; 25-12-2013, 10:26 AM. Reason: Rich---- mind read....
          " Imagination is the seed of life..."

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          • #6
            When it died, did it crank over normally or bind up?
            Being an Australian is not an excuse for being dumb and racist.

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            • #7
              If it was a soft seize with nothing major, then it should rev ok after it's cooled to normal temp ????

              perhaps take the plug out first have a look at its colour, condition as the easiest telltale?
              I cant help it if your perceptions don't match my reality


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              • #8
                Original Vespa, 2007 PX200 2 Stroke. 8200km's on it.
                Oil good, 1/4 tank fuel, started up almost straight away, didn't hesitate in starting.
                Will have to have a look at the plug tomorrow and see whats happened.
                If it has seized, then looks like a new piston/barrel/head is in order.
                Pinasco Racing 215cc Kit, and maybe a water cooled head...
                or No water cooling, plus stroker crank/rod and 225cc Kit...
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                • #9
                  Any one care to explain what a soft seize is? Never heard that term before.
                  B19 Oakford V.B.F.S

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mr_Mike View Post
                    Any one care to explain what a soft seize is? Never heard that term before.
                    Sometimes referred to as nipping up, usually uneven heating or overheating causes uneven expansion and the aluminium of the piston drags on the bore, but once it cools down clearances return to normal.

                    Different to an engine locking up and dragging the smoking rear tyre down the road until you pull the clutch in.
                    Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

                    when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

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                    • #11
                      Overheated piston expands in the bore and siezes till it cools, then starts again.

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                      • #12
                        WHS...

                        Generally soft seizes turn into hard seizes if you don't get on the clutch straight away...

                        The alloy of the piston can get left on the cylinder wall, the rings don't like this and snag on the alloy snapping them...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr_Mike View Post
                          Any one care to explain what a soft seize is? Never heard that term before.
                          rich has summed it up

                          you catch it before it grabs

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                          • #14
                            When they happen it feels like the back break is coming on...

                            if you get the clutch in they generally stall before you have a chance to kill switch it...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ELIMN8R View Post
                              Original Vespa, 2007 PX200 2 Stroke. 8200km's on it.
                              Oil good, 1/4 tank fuel, started up almost straight away, didn't hesitate in starting.
                              Will have to have a look at the plug tomorrow and see whats happened.
                              If it has seized, then looks like a new piston/barrel/head is in order.
                              Pinasco Racing 215cc Kit, and maybe a water cooled head...
                              or No water cooling, plus stroker crank/rod and 225cc Kit...
                              Has it been tuned for the modifications? Two strokes are very sensitive to fuelling especially if they have been tweaked. If it's been seized do a compression test. You should take compression measurements after fresh rebuilds, for a datum point to test engine health against.

                              If you don't have that datum then you may not be able to identify subtle damage in which case you can faff about looking up ports but if you really want peace of mind head off so you can inspect the bores.

                              In any event the bikes got a problem, you need to solve it before continuing to ride it or risk more damage and or a complete breakdown somewhere hopefully not when you are pulling out into traffic.
                              Last edited by g0zer; 26-12-2013, 07:46 AM.
                              Originally posted by Bendito
                              If we get to a stop and we are missing a dozen bikes and you are last, it was your fault. Don't be that guy. No one likes that guy.

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