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'Celebrating' Gallipoli - great article

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  • 'Celebrating' Gallipoli - great article

    we are asked to celebrate this now, to 'honour' a 'sacrifice' that 'had to be made'. It was a battle that should never have been planned and should never have been fought. It gave Turkey a nation-founding hero and us a century of bloodstained hypocrisy, ending hopefully soon.

    Death should never be celebrated. It is too big a defeat. It is celebrated by men like Howard and Rudd and Bush and Blair and Bin Laden who do not believe in death and think it only a moment before the story continues, among angel choirs on green meadows with lions and lambs at play together. It is celebrated by pious dimwits, not men and women of intellect; not any more.
    While I admire the courage of the diggers that fought and died there, I'm glad someone has finally come out and said it like they see it.

    Read the full article here: ABC The Drum Unleashed - Battles lost, minds won
    "Live Long and Prosper"

    Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

  • #2
    No, don't agree. Like you say, we're celebrating the courage of the diggers that fought and died there and not the reason. We're celebrating the men and women, the courage and the honour of these people and not the war; a man or woman of intellect would realise that.



    "Always out-numbered, never out-gunned"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sentry View Post
      No, don't agree. Like you say, we're celebrating the courage of the diggers that fought and died there and not the reason. We're celebrating the men and women, the courage and the honour of these people and not the war; a man or woman of intellect would realise that.
      It doesn't change the fact that we invaded another country for no good reason and then lost with great loss of life.

      It is even more sad that 'we' never learn. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq.... What will be our next folly? A man or woman with intellect would say enough is enough.
      "Live Long and Prosper"

      Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

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      • #4
        Why does Ellis suggest we are "celebrating" anything?
        Originally posted by Melkor
        The Saint is all over the answer like a Saint on a cupcake.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by The Saint View Post
          Why does Ellis suggest we are "celebrating" anything?
          Because nearly a century of spin to put a positive light on something tremendously tragic doesn't change the fact that it was a fuckup.

          (Edited to correct crappy grammar)
          "Live Long and Prosper"

          Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

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          • #6
            Ellis suggests we are celebrating something because nearly a century of spin tries to put a positive light on something tremendously tragic?

            Zuh?
            Originally posted by Melkor
            The Saint is all over the answer like a Saint on a cupcake.

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            • #7
              Hey Saint I understand your logic but try to get the 'vibe' of the article.
              "Live Long and Prosper"

              Bayswater Martial Arts and Yoga Centre

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              • #8
                I don't disagree that we shouldn't have been there but that wasn't for us to decide. The fact is that we were there and regardless of the soil they fought on they did it regardless. It's a soldiers job to fight and not ask questions. Celebrating the war is celebrating the morons that shipped the soldiers to Gallipoli. I don't think thats what we celebrate on Anzac day which, is something that snippit of article completely looks over.



                "Always out-numbered, never out-gunned"

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                • #9
                  I'm still not convinced we do much celebrating on Anzac Day.
                  Originally posted by Melkor
                  The Saint is all over the answer like a Saint on a cupcake.

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                  • #10
                    Gallipoli = fuckup
                    Vietnam = fuckup
                    Iraq = fuckup
                    And unfortunately, there are and will continue to be, many more.
                    I don't see that Anzac day has anything to do with these actions/engagements directly,
                    nor do I think of it as a 'celebration'. I've always seen Anzac day as a time of reflection
                    and an occasion when we as Australians can come together to honour the men and women
                    that have served and in particular, those that have fallen.
                    'It is more a song of mourning now than a hymn of praise.' (Bob Ellis)
                    Lest we forget

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                    • #11
                      There are two soldiers I have talked to in the last three days who will be celebrating (If you call getting drunk by midday and playing two up with your colleagues celebrating).

                      My wife was discussing with one of them last night as to why there is not a day for the recognition of the innocent victims of war. He was at first a little taken aback by this but came around to understand the thought behind it.

                      I think it has changed over the years with generational change. There has been a shift towards nationalistic pride that a lot of Australians have aligned ANZAC day to, through a lack of anything else to attach this pride in their country. For example, wrapping a flag around your shoulders and getting pissed on the foreshore on 26 January.

                      To me it is more a recognition of the sacrifice people made and continue to make (well informed or not) to preserve their homeland and way of life.

                      As stated in another thread three out of four of my relatives who went to war (WWII, Korea and Vietnam) refused to discuss or acknowledge said service as well as ignoring ANZAC day. Interestingly these three were all involved in heavy prolonged fighting, one in two theatres, N.Africa and S.E. Asia, the fourth, who would discuss his experiences spent three years as a P.O.W. in Europe.

                      These are some of the people who have shaped my views and beliefs on wars and conflicts.

                      I keep mementos close to me every day so I can remember how war affected them and why it should be avoided.

                      As for having a victorious battle anniversary as a day of rememberance as opposed to a military fail, I think that would lead to a serious bout of nationalistic chest beating, that would almost be offensive to my ancestors and all who experienced terrible events.

                      As it stands and from what I feel there is a great sense of sorrow surrounding ANZAC day (hopefully from the majority of Australians) that is in line with the futility and horror of war in spite of the media hype and nationalism masquerading as patriotism we see trotted out each year from certain sectors.

                      It is this sense of sorrow and loss that makes it a bit different to a celebration.
                      They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

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                      • #12
                        There is a famous quote "War is old men talking and young men dieing"

                        The young men sent to gallipoli and Europe and Vietnam, and all the other conflicts Australia has been involved in, fought with courage and resilience. They were sent by the politicians. We don't celebrate the politicians who sent them and stayed at home. We celebrate the courage and spirit of the men who fought and died to protect this country (and yes if we fight for our allies it still counts since, as much as it galls, without america and britan at our backs we are fucked).

                        The man who wrote this article is clearly against all war and fair enough but he is missing the point, We dont celebrate war, we celebrate the men who left home in the knowledge they might not come back and served their country.

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                        • #13
                          Anzac day is not a day of 'celebration', it's a day of remeberance - not just for the soldiers at Gallipoli, but for all who have died in military operations on behalf of thier country.

                          It's not about glorifying war, it's about acknowledging the people who have died fighting to protect Australia and our way of life.

                          I think the ****head who wrote this article should actually attend a few dawn services - then he might be able to write an informed article, instead of that policically motivated tree hugging tripe.

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                          • #14
                            definately rememberance and appreciation. no one truly wins a war, we are lose to various degree's. i admire the people who had the courage to go. scares the hell out of me.
                            the ABC had a doco on Kokoda the other night, continues next week. Seeing the militia serving in PNG. what they endured, lack of support and being called "rabbits" by a CO who never even went up the track.

                            they stood firm with their mates when they could have run. whatever war or theatre, that's what aussie's have always done, along side kiwi's, commonwealth and yank troops, I'll be rememebering that tommorow. its to late to change the reasons why,but time to remember who served and died.

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                            • #15
                              At the time, those actions were taken for reasons the commanding officers saw fit. Though ill conceived and the men knew it, they still fought as they saw it dishonourable to quit.

                              THAT IS THE AUSSIE SPIRIT, that is what we celebrate, not whether they should have been there in the first place or whether we won or lost.

                              Battlefronts since have been transformed from the mistakes of the last century, but lives will still be lost, its in the human spirit to fight when your freedom is challenged.
                              07 MV F41000R
                              09 Blazing orange Speed Triple
                              07 CBR 600RR trackbike
                              sigpic http://www.ozspeedphotography.com/

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