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  • Mental Health system flaws and experiences

    *SWIM = Someone Who isn't Me

    Does the mental health system deserve to be getting the credit, respect and mindblowing budget that it does?

    In my opinion NO... am I right or wrong?

    I have included some events I have witnessed and would like to see some more added to thread to help those deciding whether to use mental health services to be more informed about this decision

    Do people fair better or worse with overseas systems, or are they better off without a system as per the "successes" seen in third world countries that have no psychiatry?

    I feel it has among other problems also been maliciously corrupted by pharmaceutical company interests in dollar profit, just the same as Bayer making poison gas for the Nazis

    While I feel there is a use for these services for those that are prone to violence or are so lost might do something dangerous or erratic to themselves or others, for the most part those with any sort of mind troubles could be better catered to.

    I have come to feel this way having worked with mental health patients and knowing people receiving "treatments".
    I feel quite informed on this topic I understand what its like to feel that willingness for a last resort... life or death, prices to pay to get better.
    SWIM's mental health also has tended towards depression at times of SWIM's life, at one stage SWIM didn't have the mindset to carry on living.
    SWIM arranged enough heroin and other opiate painkillers to maintain usage, addiction and tollerance for 4 months he felt like throwing the chips in the air and just hoping for the best outcome but also prepared to face ruin and the loss of everything.
    Swim found being warmed numbed and comfortable able to get along and able to reflect and change and become a better person that he and the world needed him to be.
    However now swim was hooked on drugs you say... no problem swim went without them felt sick and down for a few days but stayed focused started exercising and eventually moved on, it was not easy and there were relapses but in time greater success occurred each time.

    CONTROVERSIAL MEDICINES AND USAGE GUIDELINES CURRENTLY IN PLACE:

    ANTI PSYCHOTIC / MAJOR TRANQUILIZERS :
    Drug that removes a person emotions and slow the brain right down.
    Useful for some extreme times of life and on those that fail to understand how they should behave, such as the guy I knew who became uncontrollable violent because he was possesed by an evil demon according to him and his wife.
    Even those gaining any peace with these will tell you how that comes at a price in health, creativity and general wellbeing.
    Controversy: Has terrible side effects like brain damage, thyroid damage and diabetes and more, also while cognitively impaired and protected from ones emotions to learn and recover is also compromised.
    Some major studies indicate best outcome is to use for initial crises and then cutdown and hopefully discontinue.

    Our system seems to tow the pharmaceutical company line to advise people to stay on a maintenance dose the rest of their lives, this is also the case with Lithium and other mood stabilizers.

    These drugs can be very expensive. Most boxes of "medicine I have seen are between $50-$400 full cost which our taxes subsidise in payment to the pharmaceutical company.

    OPIATES:
    Not prescribed in Australia for depression, yet highly effective and very cheap, 1 month supply cost less than $40 on the blackmarket would cost approx $2000 hence also why Australia has an addiction and crime problem.

    BAD: Addiction although in my experience and those of many others quite beatable.

    ANTI DEPRESSANT MEDICATIONS:
    Poorly explained previously this was to explain the negative experience I had with them becoming anxious and suffering insomnia.

    Clearly they can however uplift mood which is great for some people and quite worthwhil.
    For others suffering with a route cause of feeling life is meaningless it might not help so much, sure give a small dose short course, try however not to expect any miracles as maybe such drugs aren't for you, and accepting this sooner rather than weeks or months down the track of trialling many will be best for you.
    There are a few different classes of these drugs and as said indeed when you are lost and low something might help you.

    I do feel however that the common misconception that depression is chemically treatable because it is a disease rather than a symptom is very unhelpful to those in a crises of hard times with everyone telling you how you will get better if you take your medication because it is essential which is far from true for many and especially those who do not respond well to the drugs.
    ie people should keep their generalized but misinformed opinions to themselves, rightly or wrongly I go against this advice here as a reaction to all the biased information elsewhere.

    Also note some alarmists suggest these drugs are possibly not tested enough, you should tread with some caution, so called medical experts have made many mistakes to date regards lobotomy, thalidomide or the deaths brain damage suffered by patients at chelmsford mental hospital.

    PREVIOUSLY: Most commonly used ie Zoloft prozac etc are just like amphetamines except they don't wear off are much more expensive and also have bad side effects maybe worse than amphetamines.
    Also rather than the person addressing the issues they have and changing they may just continue on living the mistakes that made them depressed thanks to the medicine making them feel OK, while they lose their friends and family as a result of not changing their life choices
    .

    ELECTRO CONVULSIVE THERAPY:

    Brain is zapped while patient is under general enaesthetic to avoid broken bones from resulting seizure.
    Side effects include brain damage and can also include ongoing seizures and damage making tasks involving vehicles machinery or cooking hazardous and requiring treatment on mind dampening medications.

    Seizures involve brain damage which results in brain damage hence why if "epileptics are not medicated eventually they become half wits.

    The "professionals" will give you a wishy washy it resets the brain chemistry answer, while it does get results on occasion so did lobotomy.


    THE MISTAKES I'VE SEEN

    I was visiting someone at D20 the Mental health ward at SCGH while it is great that people have somewhere that houses and feeds them, both the above could be done better. ie food was basically frozen veges mash potato and spam, carpet smelled wet damp.
    Also while the introduction to help organisations and ideas as well as Occupational therapy classes were helpful the staff and brainwashed society mantra about how "essential" the drugs were is the downfall of many people, and is a reversal of how it should be with drugs preferably seen as the last resort and ideally for temporary use.

    When I was working I had a 14 YO patient come in for a blood test from the Bentley psych outpatient clinic his mum wanted the drug level done when I mentioned it wasn't asked for(it wasn't needed) she became hysterical, she'd had her son admitted because apparently he did not respect her as much as he should(she was quite insane IMO), because of what she had said he remained in the system forcibly medicated on anti psychotics all the years I was working.
    Experiencing what he was forced to undergo I do not like his chances of ever getting out of the system, last time I saw him he was starting to crack and almost ready to lash out.
    The story of crazy misguided parents committing their children for no good reason is sadly less isolated than I would hope for.

    Next the 14 YO girl raped and traumatized feeling shook up and then committed to Bentley psych by her misguided parents, was heavily medicated on antipsychotics when I saw her, a drooling sedated mess, how is that getting better? Opiates or even alcohol would have been more therapeutic.

    One person told me of his initial forced involountary admission as a 14 YO because his misguided parents thought it was a good idea!
    Despite not being depressed which is the only diagnostic condition treated with ECT he was given Electro convulsive by mistake and said his mind was mashed for a few days.
    Also had near death experiences on a few occasions when given an anti psychotic noted as an allergy on his medical record, also had another patient try to rape him.

    More... involountary outpatient good guy treated like child asked very personal irrelevant questions that have been asked many times before and forced to make an appointment every week with this new doctor who showed him little respect.
    Crazy bitch prescribed him powerful anti psychotic seroquel tablets 4x stronger than usual turning him into a confused and afraid zombie when he took 1 to sleep at night.
    Patient has a very responsible job she suggested he should also perhaps be forced to take a mind numbing shot of anti psychotics every few weeks which he said would make his work unreliable and possibly dangerous.
    He wants to get on not go on a pension for life.

  • #2
    i actually read all that drivel. sorry mate but in my opinion know-it-all idiots who go around spouting this kind of bullshit are one of the things that make it very difficult for people in the psych profession to do their job. there are a million things i could pick at in your post but it would be a waste of time. most of your criticisms of the mental health system, including your "experiences," i think would be put down to a failing public health system, nothing to do with psychiatry.

    but i will say this. please state exactly what experience you have in the mental health profession and/or working with mental health patients. please reference all the information you have provided. until youve done that your post is just a load of wank.

    ps. you should become a scientologist, they bloody hate psychiatry and theyre about as rational as you are.
    Originally posted by Friedrich Hayek
    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."

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    • #3
      Before I make any comments, may I ask what you do Ev?
      "He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice." Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dr00 View Post
        i actually read all that drivel. sorry mate but in my opinion know-it-all idiots who go around spouting this kind of bullshit are one of the things that make it very difficult for people in the psych profession to do their job. there are a million things i could pick at in your post but it would be a waste of time. most of your criticisms of the mental health system, including your "experiences," i think would be put down to a failing public health system, nothing to do with psychiatry.

        but i will say this. please state exactly what experience you have in the mental health profession and/or working with mental health patients. please reference all the information you have provided. until youve done that your post is just a load of wank.

        ps. you should become a scientologist, they bloody hate psychiatry and theyre about as rational as you are.
        Please do not hesitate to mention the million things you could pick at in my post it would not be a waste of time as if I am wrong I would prefer it be debated and both sides stated up for the sake of those reading this thread.

        I use to work as a laboratory technician at times collecting blood/samples from mental inpatients and outpatients and analyzing them.
        Given this situation I am often asked by people to find out about things doctors had given them to take because well we just kind of have the books laying around at work or next door in the pharmacy or somewhere in a hospital, so I read them occasionally.

        If you think what I write is just a load of wank because it lacks references gimme a break....I posted just to present a perspective of how I see things and what I have seen others experience and what I thought about it. Some people may value my opinions.
        Unfortunately I haven't seen much "good" psychiatry.
        I have not posted to argue my perspective as the only possible outcome from mental health treatment as there are no doubt better outcomes that do occur.
        I think we can agree mental health and life choices are never a simple one size fits all solution.

        ps.. I take the scientologist being compared to being as rational to me comment to a baseless slur and insult which just sounds like a load of wank coming from an otherwise obviously well educated person( a doctor of some type?) such as yourself who I would have expected a much higher standard from.

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        • #5
          Trust me Ev, There are a lot of people out there who NEED medication. I've seen what happens to a family when he went off his meds.

          Even electric shock therapy is needed for some people.

          Counselling doesnt work for everyone.

          You sound like om Cruise dude. If there is any problems with the Mental Health Industry its severe lack of funding, not the drugs them selves.
          You put the c*nt in country run

          Comment


          • #6
            I worked in mental health for half a year, in records. And IMO its all a load of shit.

            They can't cure any of these people, the doctors/nurses will even say that. All they can do is basically chemically lobotomise patients and let them back out into society. Dope them up enough so they can't think, anything other than the most basic thoughts like i need food, i need to shit.

            I feel sorry for the mental health professionals. They have to put up with insane amounts of abuse from psychopathic patients and can't do anything about it. They just have to sit there and take it. I don't see why anyone would actually want to work in that field to be honest.

            One day i was at work and some insane aboriginal (or something) woman was standing around the front of the clinic yelling at herself for 2 hours. Just screaming and swearing for no apparent reason (other than being crazy). The staff didn't do anything other than ignore her and just hope she will go away. Theres plenty of other stories i can think of... But the whole system is fucked. There is no cure for these people. The doctors themselves don't even know what is wrong with their patients, or what the reason is. So they just put them on seemingly endless trials. They try something like seroquel, oh that doesnt work, lets try respirodone, oh that doesnt work, lets try something else. Even if you increased the mental health systems budget by ten fold, it would still be useless. By working there, I can tell you the amount of waste of tax payers money is 'insane'. They spend so much money on creating endless paper trails, probably more than anything else. They waste so much time playing around with databases and doing new projects and setting up commities. Nothing ever gets done.

            Fuck it all. Maybe the Nazis had the better idea. You can't fix these nutcases, so just kill them.
            Last edited by sepultura; 19-08-2009, 06:37 AM.

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            • #7
              hmmmm.....no more 24/7 PET teams, you have to recall 2 people, let them get to their office, get in a car and come out. easy 1 to 2 hr wait

              so guess who at 3am on a sunday, gets the job of dealing with someone going off their tree

              recent experience with local hostel for housing/dealing with disturbed youths - big 15 year old going right off his nutter - just on walking in you could see how stressed out the staff were.

              for some reason, hostel doesnt have a nurse, so couldn't sedate him.

              In their SOPs for such cases - item no1 is ring PET, who replied "we arent coming out , call an abulance". Ambo's turn up - "we aren't taking him, he's too violent" hostel rings up PET again - "oh well call the police."

              very typical very common

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              • #8
                what do you suggest for what are essentially genetic disorders? we aren't at the level of rewriting a human beings genetic code just yet.
                the greater the population, the greater the number of people from across the spectrum. the science isn't finished. research is ongoing and these treatment are the tools we have at this time.
                im a holding, stroking, loving machine...also spanking


                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dr00 View Post
                  i actually read all that drivel. sorry mate but in my opinion know-it-all idiots who go around spouting this kind of bullshit are one of the things that make it very difficult for people in the psych profession to do their job. there are a million things i could pick at in your post but it would be a waste of time. most of your criticisms of the mental health system, including your "experiences," i think would be put down to a failing public health system, nothing to do with psychiatry.

                  but i will say this. please state exactly what experience you have in the mental health profession and/or working with mental health patients. please reference all the information you have provided. until youve done that your post is just a load of wank.

                  ps. you should become a scientologist, they bloody hate psychiatry and theyre about as rational as you are.

                  +1.

                  That was one of the biggest loads of ill informed bullshit I've ever had the displeasure of enduring regarding mental health.

                  Mental health has always been a taboo subject in western society and until recently, it was swept under the carpet by the govt and health professionals alike. Fortunately, those bodies now have a clue and no longer shun those suffering from mental illness. The system is far from perfect and still suffers much of the stigma however it's come a long way from what it use to be primarily due to someone having woken up and realised it's an area of health that requires it's own funding.

                  Most of the problems in the system arise from a lack of knowledge. Treating mental illness requires very specific training and is not something that an every day nurse is usually trained to deal with although I do believe they now have a unit in their RN course. Case in point; a man presented to Fremantle Hospital emergency circa 2000-2001 saying he wanted to kill himself. Instead of being admitted, he was released due to a lack of emergency beds and walked in front of a bus on South Tce. Had the triage nurse or any other nurse on duty been trained in mental health, or mental health first aid, that man would likely be alive today.

                  Treatment with drugs as also come a long way. Leave your alfoil hat off too as most Dr's who possess the knowledge and experience to deal with mental health issues effectively prefer NOT to have their patients on medication unless it's absolutely necessary. Those that are medicated are also treated in other ways through seeing Psychologists in order to alter the way the patient thinks thus equipping the patient with the knowledge to help themselves.
                  In complete darkness we are all the same. It is only our knowledge and wisdom that seperate us. Dont let your eyes deceive you.
                  Its the little things that make the difference
                  Originally posted by IPIT on relationships
                  If either/both of you can take a dump with the other person being next to you within a week of meeting them then you're in with a VERY good chance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I second what dr00 said (and g0zer - do you happen to be a scientologist Ev?), though ECT is the only thing I can be bothered taking the time to call you out on.

                    It's not something that gets taken lightly, and will only be used when someone is severely depressed to the point of having zero quality of life, and all pharmacological treatments have been unsuccessful.

                    The reasons for doing it under anesthesia aren't simply "to avoid broken bones" - it's done under full anaesthesia and partial muscle block. This is because the initial shock would otherwise be painful, and to prevent the patient injuring themself while moving around during the seizure. I say partial block though, because some movement is left intact to give an extra indicator (i.e. other than the EEG trace) of seizure activity.

                    In terms of your claim that an ECT induced seizure will cause brain damage, I would like to remind you that "some memory loss" is not the same as "brain damage", and refer you to Facts & Myths | epilepsy.com ,which explains in simple terms that 5-10 minute tonic-clonic seizures do not result in brain damage.

                    ECT seizures are usually very short, nowhere near the 5 minute mark even.

                    Patients I've had the opportunity to talk to have said that the only downside to their treatment was the memory loss, but that to them this was a very small price to pay for the ability to function in life again.
                    Last edited by House; 19-08-2009, 12:51 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Well, that's five minutes I'll never see again

                      Ok, so the point is? You think the system is shit Ev? What do you suggest the gubbinment do? Where are your suggestions? Other than inciting further conflict in an area that is already struggling that is... If it really concerns you that much, enrol in that medical degree, go and work hands on in the sector or go the pollie run and your views may be considered to be both valid and credible...if of course you still hold those same views

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                      • #12
                        In my very limited experience with certain mental health services, it would be my opinion that any problems that I could see would come from lack of experience and or knowledge. The worst offenders would be people who were fresh out of Uni, and still think they know everything, or the people that have been working in the industry for "a while" and still think they know everything. Closed minds have been a big detriment to the ability to help these people.
                        I am in no way sayin this is how it is everywhere, just in my own limited experiences in a certain area. I would hope that elsewhere, things are in a much better state of affairs.

                        I'm surprise Electroshock therapy is still in use. Is it really that effective? Or has it improved from it's crude form in the early 20th century?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, ECT can be very effective in treating severe depression when drug treatment fails - it just has a lot of stigma attached to it due to it previously being used improperly (and without anaesthetic) back in the time of frontal lobotomies.

                          A few hyped up bullshit ACA and Today Tonight segments haven't helped either.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ev View Post
                            ANTI DEPRESSANT MEDICATIONS:
                            Most commonly used ie Zoloft prozac etc are just like amphetamines except they don't wear off are much more expensive and also have bad side effects maybe worse than amphetamines.
                            Lol.
                            What an utter pile of horseshit.

                            Originally posted by Ev View Post
                            Also rather than the person addressing the issues they have and changing they may just continue on living the mistakes that made them depressed thanks to the medicine making them feel OK, while they lose their friends and family as a result of not changing their life choices.
                            Jesus christ, do you actually believe this shit? If so, you are royally misinformed and probably just as ignorant about mental health issues as you are about the medications.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Some of the "mistakes you've seen" are from what I presume are accounts given to you by patients. Patients who have been involuntarily admitted. Trust me it's usually a good idea to take what these patients say with a grain of salt some of the time and not believe everything they say. Not to say there's not truth in what they say but it is usually their account of things, and when sometimes it's coming from somebody suffering delusions etc it's not the safest/truest account you'll hear.

                              Also, parents cannot force an involuntary admission (or should I say force a voluntary admission?...or effect an involuntary admission?...) because the "misguided parents thought it was a good idea". The health-care professional makes that choice.

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