Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hot Air Rework Station?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hot Air Rework Station?

    Hi All,
    Does anyone have a hot air rework station or a gas soldering iron with a heat blower tip that I could borrow for a few minutes?

    I need to cook the graphics chip on the mainboard of a laptop I have..

    Lowish heat oven gave it a few hours.
    Super hairdryer gave it 4 days.

    I reckon I'd need something to hit about 300 degrees C to fix it once and for all.

    Help me PSB, you're my only hope!
    (before I go buy one myself)
    "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

  • #2
    Try a toaster oven to bring it up to 270 or so and a hot air torch (gas soldering iron without the tip) to finish it off?
    "Once upon a time we would obey in public, but in private we would be cynical; today, we announce cynicism, but in private we obey."

    Comment


    • #3
      I know that the Q-ZAR workshop out the back used to have a half-decent heat gun... not sure if it is enough, but it used to get pretty damn hot...

      so you could ask Flamedance nicely?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kryzaach View Post
        I need to cook the graphics chip on the mainboard of a laptop I have..
        Lol.

        Comment


        • #5
          You wanna be careful with re-work. Presumably it's a BGA chip with a dry joint ( this = nightmare). So you can heat the whole lot up in an oven up to almost solder meltpoint, so all the parts don't melt fall off, then quickly hit that chip to re-melt the balls and get everything seated nicely.

          Without actually frying the chip
          "Once upon a time we would obey in public, but in private we would be cynical; today, we announce cynicism, but in private we obey."

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, it's likely the nightmare scenario, unless this particular last round of heating/cooling was enough to warp the substrate, in which case it's just plain toast. The chip's thermal profile seems to have been fudged by nvidia when they gave the design specs to oems. Either that or TSMC botched every single G84 and G86 they ever produced, which I find extremely unlikely...(it's out of warranty too)

            Thanks for the suggestion, *fish. I'm hesitant about sticking a board with electrolytics in a 270 degree oven though.

            Here's a question for you, will compression help prevent fractures forming in solder/substrate warping?

            I'm thinking I need to do the following:

            1) Reform the broken join(assuming it's not a substrate problem)
            2) increase the thermal transfer from the chip
            3) reduce the chance of mechanical damage due to fluctuating heat

            My approach to each of these is so far:

            1) Rework station/maybe the oven idea
            2) Replace all thermal pads with metallic thermal grease and increase the idle fan speed on the heat pipe(already done through bios mod)
            3) Reposition the heat pipe contact to exert slightly more force onto the chip surface

            Am I deluding myself? Or is it actually worth a shot?
            "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

            Comment


            • #7
              Compression is just going to introduce a new swag of tensors which will cause their own problems, so no. The way to prevent fractures forming in solder/substrate warping is to design them properly so they can tolerate the temperature variations expected AND mount them properly so they aren't mechanically loaded when the delta-T hits.

              EVERYONE I know working commercially on BGA has the following approach to rework:
              1) throw the board in the bin.
              2) get a new board.

              They are not worth the hassle. The temperatures required to play with solder are soo very close to the temperatures required to cook chips and PCBs that a fair bit of skill (or luck) is required to succeed. And lead-free solder hasn't got the surface tension of leaded solder so reflowing a BGA often means watching the BGA slide off the charred board.

              I'd suggest that the problem you're facing is a dry joint rather than a design issue unless nerdlinger forums are full of bitches whining about their sick laptop graphics chips of the same motherboard model. That being the case, a _proper_ reflow will either accidentally the motherboard completely or it will fix your issue. No need to worry about 3, 2 is probably worth doing too.

              Can you get at the area on the PCB behind the motherboard (ie is it free of components)?? If so, a heater pad would be much better than a toaster over. Same principal though, heat the board behind up to just shy of the solder meltpoint and then finish off by hot air over the chip.

              Takes you back to your original question - does anyone have a reflow workstation? (sorry, I don't.)

              Is it worth an attempt? Well, guessing the mobo is b0rk3d at the moment, so it's not like you're going to make it worse, is it...?
              "Once upon a time we would obey in public, but in private we would be cynical; today, we announce cynicism, but in private we obey."

              Comment


              • #8
                PM Sentry, think i left my old portasol with him when i left Perth... It's got a hot air tip.
                Speed dosen't kill, its the slowing down that does...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lots of good info there Cap'n, thanks. You're right, I can't really break it any further can I?

                  Ok, so compression is a bad idea, I'm glad I asked that one!

                  Heater pad/gas iron is a go. I have a pad here and I need a new soldering iron anyway, time to go shopping..

                  Who knows what the cause really is... Nvidia aren't saying(read, blaming everyone else involved), nerdlinger speculation ranges from a manufacturing fault across the lot, to Nvidia borking design, resulting in the silicon running 5 or so Watts hotter than expected and then just reclassifying how they specify the thermal profile a few weeks after the first faults started showing.

                  Every Dell XPS m1330 that hasn't had its mainboard replaced has this error, as does every HP laptop across 28 product lines. This seems to have angered many people, who'd have guessed?

                  If this doesn't fix it, I'll just grab a replacement board anyway.. I just hesitate to spend 500 bucks when I can potentially fix it for a few minutes of my time instead.
                  "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CircusFreaks View Post
                    PM Sentry, think i left my old portasol with him when i left Perth... It's got a hot air tip.
                    Orly, awesome.. Shall do.

                    How long until you're back, anyway?
                    "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      May be able to help. At work (welshpool) we have an preheat oven (only 80 deg) and Hako hot air rework stations.
                      If its raining tomorrow I may be going past there, otherwise let me know. If its BGA I would be interested to see how you go..... but if its buggered anyways, why not.
                      Being an Australian is not an excuse for being dumb and racist.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Back Wed night for 2 weeks. Adam is gonna let me borrow my old VTR... sweet...
                        Speed dosen't kill, its the slowing down that does...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          got a soldering iron,a butain blower[thats a bit harsh!] or a plastic welder/heat gun here.
                          if you are still in need drop me a pm.


                          Straightline2ten your motorcycle and motor car repairer for smash repairs

                          insurance or private work, plastic welding,resprays, restoration and classics

                          dianella 93703770

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for all the advice and offers of help guys.

                            I put it back together earlier today and it's all working fine!

                            I used the heatpad and then a heatgun to sort the gpu out.

                            Then I replaced all the thermal pads with Coolaboratory Liquid MetalPads.

                            Have to work fast with these buggers, as they melt at 58 degrees, so going by my method I had less than 20 seconds to put them in place and get the heatpipe back on.

                            But it's all good now and crazy heat cycles should be a thing of the past..

                            The only issue was when I first powered up, there was a bit of corruption in the dynamic portion of the screen(top right):


                            But after a few reboots etc, it's all back to usual, no misbehaviour whatsoever:



                            So once again, thanks for the advice gentlemen(and starfish), saved me a heap of cash..
                            "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X