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The hidden problems with circumcision...

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  • The hidden problems with circumcision...

    Who would have thought...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/ny...k.html?_r=2&hp

    The grandmother carried the sleeping infant boy on a white pillow toward the synagogue’s altar, and passed him to her son. Her son carried the infant toward the mohel, or Jewish ritual circumciser, who stood amid a cluster of chanting men.

    The mohel lifted the infant’s clothing to expose his tiny penis. With a rapid flick of a sharp two-sided scalpel, the mohel sliced off the foreskin and held it between his fingers. Then he took a sip of red wine from a cup and bent his head. He placed his lips below the cut, around the base of the baby’s penis, for a split second, creating suction, then let the wine spill from his mouth out over the wound.

    “You’re O.K.,” he said to the infant, Benjamin Asher Mortob, who stopped crying after several more seconds. The sanctuary filled with elated prayer.

    The mohel, A. Romi Cohn, said he had performed more than 25,000 circumcisions, on babies and adults, in New York City and elsewhere over the last 40 years. When he circumcises an infant, he said, he almost always put his mouth on the baby’s penis to pull blood away from the wound in an ancient part of the circumcision ritual, known in Hebrew as metzitzah b’peh, that is still commonplace in parts of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community but is rare in other branches of Judaism.

    The city estimates that metzitzah b’peh is used in some 3,600 local circumcisions each year. The city’s health department says that, between 2000 and 2011, 11 babies contracted herpes as a result, and 2 of them died. This spring, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention declared that the procedure created a risk for transmission of herpes and other pathogens and was “not safe.”

    So on Thursday, the city’s Board of Health is scheduled to vote on a proposal that would require parents to sign a consent form indicating that they are aware of the risk of herpes transmission when a circumcision procedure, or bris, includes direct oral contact.

    The measure, which Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg strongly supports, would probably be the first governmental regulation of the ritual in the United States, rabbis say. It would not affect the way most Jewish ritual circumcisions are performed — gauze or a sterile pipette is used to pull blood from the wound — nor would it ban the practice. But the issue being raised in New York coincides with moves in Denmark, Germany and other countries toward restricting or banning infant circumcision.

    Mr. Cohn, 83, said that he would rather go to jail then comply with the consent requirement. While he acknowledged that there were unqualified circumcisers who work without proper health testing and training, he said he believed that the ritual was completely safe when performed by him or another practitioner certified by an association of circumcisers; he is the chairman of the group.

    “If you follow strictly the ritual, there will be no harm to the baby,” he said. A circumcision, he added, “is a joyous occasion — nothing traumatic about it.”

    And Benjamin Asher’s father, Isaac Mortob, 27, said his family had sought out Mr. Cohn in part because he did the procedure in the traditional way, including the oral suction. “I don’t want a 99 percent job, I want a 100 percent job,” he said. “I want him” — his firstborn son — “to be fully Jewish.”

    But city health officials say the mohel’s safeguards, which include rinsing with Listerine before the procedure, sterilizing tools, scrubbing hands with surgical soap and being tested annually for pathogens, are insufficient.

    The main virus that worries the city is oral herpes, which is present in some 70 percent of the city’s adult population and can cause fatal infections in babies. Highly contagious, it is spread through contact with infected saliva, even by sharing drinks or towels.

    “There is no safe way to perform oral suction on an open wound in a newborn,” said Dr. Jay K. Varma, the city’s deputy commissioner for disease control. If the measure passes, he said, circumcisers who do not comply could face warning letters or fines.

    Ultra-Orthodox leaders plan to sue the city if the regulation is passed, arguing that the measure would constitute an unconstitutional infringement on their religious freedom. Some 200 ultra-Orthodox rabbis published a decree in late August warning adherents that it was forbidden “to participate in the evil plans of the New York City health department,” according to a translation by Yeshiva World News. And a Jewish religious court in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, went further, stating that oral suction was a mandatory part of the procedure that should be promoted.

    “There is nothing to worry from metzitzah b’peh,” the judges wrote, according to a translation by the Chabad Lubavitch movement. “To the contrary, it is very beneficial, even according to the doctors.”

    But other Jewish leaders disagree.

    Rabbi Gerald C. Skolnik, the president of the Rabbinical Assembly, the international association of conservative rabbis, said he supported the Board of Health’s move to require parental consent. He said that direct suction was not required by Jewish law and that the serious risks of the practice were “inconsistent with the Jewish tradition’s pre-eminent concern with human life and health.”

    In 2005, the Rabbinical Council of America, the main union of modern Orthodox rabbis, urged that a sterile glass tube be used for suction, rather than the mohel’s mouth. But the group opposes the city’s effort to regulate the practice; instead it has asked the city to work with Orthodox groups “to voluntarily develop procedures to effectively prevent the unintended spread of infection.”
    "He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice." Albert Einstein

  • #2
    Aaah religion, you've gotta love it.
    -

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't work these nutjobs out. On one hand they say god created us in his image, and then they chop a bit off?

      Comment


      • #4
        Can you spell 'Sex pest'?
        Originally posted by Abuse this
        Get a load of this pussy, he wouldn't travel back in time to murder a baby.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by agrid View Post
          Aaah religion, you've gotta love it.
          Not that I love religion or anything most of our parents/their parents got circumcised because of hygiene and the war.

          that draw to conclusion was a pretty good one m8
          Originally posted by Rich...
          You got me in trouble...

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          • #6
            Hygiene? How come my dick didn't fall off in the field? How come you are not supposed to pull back a baby's foreskin to bathe it? How come any medical practitioner will say that there is no 'hygiene' aspect to circumcision?

            Comment


            • #7
              But hey, at least we see once again how much these religions are the same.

              It's not just the catholic priests who enjoy blow jobs with kids...
              "Once upon a time we would obey in public, but in private we would be cynical; today, we announce cynicism, but in private we obey."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sookie View Post
                Not that I love religion or anything most of our parents/their parents got circumcised because of hygiene and the war.

                that draw to conclusion was a pretty good one m8
                This article seems to dealing specifically with children being circumcised as part of their Jewish faith, hence Agrids comment.

                I would suspect that most of your relatives weren't having their cock sucked by a priest following the procedure ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sookie View Post
                  most of our parents/their parents got circumcised because of hygiene and the war.
                  You understand the points raised in the OP are directly related to the jewish religious ceremony ?

                  PRETTY GOOD DRAW TO CONCLUSION M8

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                  • #10
                    I saw a story on news.com.au today about circumcision, thought about posting it - read the previous 'circumcision' post and decided not to. Basically its the usual 'one vs the other' argument.



                    [MENTION=32198]Sookie[/MENTION] your parents were not circumcised because of the war and we've been able to wash for a few centuries now. Most of the european combatants were not circumcised. It's basically a hangover from ye olde days to stop boys masturbating as frequently. I'm pretty sure it failed, although I'm sure it took them a hell of a lot longer...

                    The fact the Rabbi in the story Sventek posted gives a little 'vino-gobby' at the end of the ritual seems bizarre.

                    The sooner this practice is used for medical reasons alone (when they actually arise) the better. This stupid 'preventative' argument for western civilization is bizarre and misconstrued. Use a condom.

                    I enjoy my extra nerve endings a great deal.
                    Whatcha gonna do? Rap is not afraid of you
                    Beat is for Sonny Bono, beat is for Yoko Ono

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sookie View Post
                      Not that I love religion or anything most of our parents/their parents got circumcised because of hygiene and the war.

                      that draw to conclusion was a pretty good one m8
                      I believe that the "hygiene" myth is a recent invention, apparently the original reason for male & female circumcisions was to stop people masturbating.

                      EDIT: Beaten to it.
                      The correct number of bikes to own = N + 1, where N is the current number of bikes you own.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Old frt View Post
                        I can't work these nutjobs out. On one hand they say god created us in his image, and then they chop a bit off?
                        In wondering this myself...I have had a few discussions and the main reasons given were these...
                        Biblically (Luke 2:21) Jesus was also circumcised...
                        Also (Genesis 17)...the 'people' were commanded by God to circumcise


                        Beyond that...hygiene wise...i know multiple medical practitioners who believe circumcision is more hygienic after having worked in hospitals for many years...
                        Studies however are inconclusive...


                        I find it a little creepy to know that people are going to Rabbi's and having them suck their child's penis
                        Last edited by Fitze; 13-09-2012, 10:58 PM. Reason: spelling

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Had a family member that got done at the age of 45 that did as a result of constant infection issues. [ no mohel was present at the time]

                          Did not discuss said issues however , or the suspected cause/s.

                          He was very happy once the surgery had healed.
                          Last edited by ReCon; 13-09-2012, 11:10 PM. Reason: thread context
                          Sventek, being a predominantly lazy fuck can you please purchase some for me, bring me the stuff, create something I want after you think of it for me then clean my house, wash my car, dog, bike breathe for me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sookie View Post
                            Not that I love religion or anything most of our parents/their parents got circumcised because of hygiene and the war.

                            that draw to conclusion was a pretty good one m8
                            Most of our parents were circumcised before going to war because there was a danger that the end of their dicks might be shot off.
                            -

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BOFH View Post
                              I believe that the "hygiene" myth is a recent invention, apparently the original reason for male & female circumcisions was to stop people masturbating.

                              EDIT: Beaten to it.
                              Doesn't work ... believe me, I know.
                              -

                              Comment

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