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European Cars ... the Truth

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  • European Cars ... the Truth

    I was listening to an interview on Radio National with the editor of the Dog & Lemon Guide. This is a completely independent car review service. The trouble with the likes of Wheels, Modern Motor etc is the manufacturers cars they review are also clients buying advertising space so there's a conflict of interest. They're careful about bagging a particular brand if that same company is advertising their cars in the same publication.

    Anyway, he said the best value and most reliable cars are the the Japanese and Korean cars. Toyota and Hyundai in particular. The worst cars for reliablity and value are the European cars. He said the problem started when cars became more electronic. The Japanese/Koreans were already ahead of the game so their electronics are better. The Germans are too complicated now and have too many gadgets that cost a small fortune when they break.

    The other thing that gives you a false impression with the Euro cars ... Mercedes & BMW in particular is they have a lot more sound deading material installed on the floor, doors, bonnet and boot. This gives the impression of high quality because you get that nice thud sound when you close the door and they are quieter on the road. This is also why the Mercs and BMW's are heavy for their size.

    The Mercs and BMW's are well built and well engineered ... but so are the Toyotas and Hyundais. Mercedes have built up an amazing marketing image over the decades. They are the car of choice for Dictators, Sheiks and Despots. So when you drive your Merc around you are supposed to have this feeling that you're from a superior genetic pool lauding it over the masses as you pass them on the freeway. Trouble is the Corolla you passed is probably far more reliable and will still be going in 20 years time.

    So if you purchased a new Ford XR6 Turbo (one of the best value performance cars out there) and took the time to remove the seats and flooring and the door trims and install this stuff:

    DBkill Mega 20 Pack 70 sq ft Car Sound Deadener Audio Noise Control | eBay

    you would have a "European" XR6 Turbo. Do the boot and the bonnet as well. Maybe a good project for you "96"

    I've used this product in my van and it's bloody good. It's the same as Dynamat but much cheaper.
    Last edited by Scott52; 27-12-2012, 06:58 PM.
    I'll be riding for you #52, my dear son, Cameron Taylor Elliott 1985-2009
    2008 CBR600RR and 2010 GSXR750 Track Bikes, KTM530EXC Enduro bike wrist breaker

  • #2
    i'd rate hyundai over toyota but i'd still take a decent euro over either.

    toyota are living on borrowed time with a reputation they stopped earning years ago.
    Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

    when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

    Comment


    • #3
      If a Hyundai Getz can outlast a bevy of 17-21 year old broads in a lifetime , they must be doing something right.
      Sventek, being a predominantly lazy fuck can you please purchase some for me, bring me the stuff, create something I want after you think of it for me then clean my house, wash my car, dog, bike breathe for me.

      Comment


      • #4
        I follow advice I read some time ago:
        Drive German
        Ride Italian
        Kiss French
        -

        Comment


        • #5
          Not sure I'd agree that all European cars are worst for reliability and value.
          I had a BMW 335i which was a pile of crap, my business partner has a BMW X6 which is just as bad, but my Golf GTI has been brilliant thus far.

          No doubt that Hyundai's and the like are designed to do a million miles on a single engine, but that would mean wanting to driving a Hyundai for a million miles to find out !
          If they told me tommorow that Hyosungs were the best build quality of all bikes, I still wouldn't want to own one.

          As far as XR6 Turbo's go, they're OK, but their build quality isn't the best. We ran a few as company cars and had a number of problems.
          The interior is average at best and the dashboard is made out of recycled 240L rubbish bins.

          Comment


          • #6
            i do love my turbo scott...

            but ill drain out the noise with stereo, not dead weight. besides, its wisper quiet compared to almost anything ive been in.

            as for the quality... well... thats debatable. some is great. other parts, i question.
            The greatest excitement comes from besting who you were yesterday.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AndyS View Post
              Not sure I'd agree that all European cars are worst for reliability and value.
              I had a BMW 335i which was a pile of crap, my business partner has a BMW X6 which is just as bad, but my Golf GTI has been brilliant thus far.

              No doubt that Hyundai's and the like are designed to do a million miles on a single engine, but that would mean wanting to driving a Hyundai for a million miles to find out !
              If they told me tommorow that Hyosungs were the best build quality of all bikes, I still wouldn't want to own one.

              As far as XR6 Turbo's go, they're OK, but their build quality isn't the best. We ran a few as company cars and had a number of problems.
              The interior is average at best and the dashboard is made out of recycled 240L rubbish bins.
              The fella said the VW's are pretty good although some models have been terrible. My sister has a Golf 2007 model TSI I think. It's the one with a turbo and supercharger. It's had two engines fail so far and they bought it new.

              I've got a 2009 C Class Mercedes and it's been pretty good although I only have 43,000km on it. A glow plug failed (it's a V6 turbo diesel) but that was a warranty repair. The switch on the console that controls the navigation and the audio failed. It's like a mouse the way it works with a knob you can spin around and push up, down, left, right and push in to select. It's out of warranty. I call the dealer. "Yeah mate we can get one in ... $824 plus about $200 to install it.

              That's like a red rag to a bull to me. I got onto a wrecker in the UK who has an eBay site. Got the switch out of a 2010 C250 for $50 delivered. I worked out how to remove it and installed the new one and it works a treat.

              I've since pulled the old one apart and discovered it's the internal shaft that breaks. I've repaired it and now I have a spare for next time. I buy all the consumables out of the UK on eBay. Wiper blades and brake pads for starters.
              I'll be riding for you #52, my dear son, Cameron Taylor Elliott 1985-2009
              2008 CBR600RR and 2010 GSXR750 Track Bikes, KTM530EXC Enduro bike wrist breaker

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 96 View Post
                i do love my turbo scott...

                but ill drain out the noise with stereo, not dead weight. besides, its wisper quiet compared to almost anything ive been in.

                as for the quality... well... thats debatable. some is great. other parts, i question.
                I had two of them. The last one a BF Series two with the the 6 speed auto was a great car and I had no problems at all.

                I'd recommend you get that stuff for the doors as it makes a huge difference. The extra weight is only a poofteenth and it won't cost too much. You just remove the trim and stick it on the metal and put some foam on the door skin behind the speaker.

                If you do that your audio system will sound heaps better and you'll have even less road noise.
                I'll be riding for you #52, my dear son, Cameron Taylor Elliott 1985-2009
                2008 CBR600RR and 2010 GSXR750 Track Bikes, KTM530EXC Enduro bike wrist breaker

                Comment


                • #9
                  The against argument on euro cars is no different to jap vs Italian bikes.
                  I've owned all the above and currently driving my 4th BMW. Horses for courses, horror stories are abound in Toyota, Hyundai, Kia etc. Sorry, I will drive German, they are built better, actually lighter not heavier, efficient and yes they use insulation, so you don't have to retrofit deadner on your tin can after. All the electronic gizmos are on German cars approx 5-7 years before they appear in cheaper incarnations in budget imatations. This report actually is a crock of shit based on opinion, not fact.
                  Ford/Holden, don't get me started on quality here they have some doozies. Someone in the market for a Korean won't go and compare to euro, its not a matter of which one is better value its more to do with the individual needs and affordability.

                  Good advice above, drive German ride Italian!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I can see it now -'In a hyundia you shift by feel'. The ultimate drivers car...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My beemer (E39 535) has had its issues. All cooling system related, which is a known problem with most later model BMWs as it is all plastic and not suitable long term in the aussie climate. It needs to be replaced every so often or replaced with alloy stuff.


                      But... seriously... I've had a bunch of jap cars, a couple of aussie cars, and this..... and it is the best handling car I have ever driven.

                      And yes, it is engineered, and you can feel it. The switch gear, the steering weight, the fit and finish of the trim, even small details like the way the indicator and headlamp bulbs are held in just ooze quality.

                      Its a 2001 model and it is almost silent inside. No rattles, no squeaks, etc.



                      So i guess what I'm saying is this:

                      "Yes, the servicing and repair bills kill me. I don't care!"



                      This video just NAILS it.




                      The engineering in these cars is AWESOME. The implementation is flawed....



                      edit:
                      as an example of german engineering - the exhaust system.
                      stock, on my car has double-walled headers (have had a fuel hose not fitted properly by Auto classic pop off and spray fuel all over them and no fire ) and stainless.

                      Jap car? no... some shitty heat shielding over a cast iron log manifold and no stainless....
                      Last edited by thro; 27-12-2012, 07:41 PM.
                      “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Spina View Post
                        The against argument on euro cars is no different to jap vs Italian bikes.
                        Sorry, I will drive German, they are built better, actually lighter not heavier, efficient and yes they use insulation This report actually is a crock of shit based on opinion, not fact.

                        Good advice above, drive German ride Italian!!!
                        I reckon for their size the German cars are heavy. My BF Series 2 XR6 Turbo was 1.68 tonne. I wanted to get a smaller rear drive sporty sedan so got the Mercedes C Class and it weighs about 1.65 tonne so it's about 30kg lighter but a much smaller car. It surprised me. Maybe the BMW's are lighter than the eqivalent size in other brands.

                        The tests the Dog and Lemon do are based on a standardised format. I think "crock of shit based on opinion" is bit disrespectful. They're a reputable testing publication. A bit like Choice ... they're very good. I'd be skeptical of the car tests in Wheels, Modern Motor because of the conflicts of interest. It's the same deal as going to the banks financial planners ... huge conflicts of interest.
                        I'll be riding for you #52, my dear son, Cameron Taylor Elliott 1985-2009
                        2008 CBR600RR and 2010 GSXR750 Track Bikes, KTM530EXC Enduro bike wrist breaker

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Don't forget with the beemers and mercs you get power everything. Seats adjustable every which way, the mercs have massaging seats in them, etc.

                          The weight is also better laid out - for example the battery in my 535i is in the boot. Factory fitment.

                          Yes, the car is 1680kg dry, but it handles a FUCKLOAD better than even any modern commodore I've driven (I do have the M suspension package). It also has stability control that will also assist the car to turn if it is understeering (using yaw sensor, steering wheel sensor, etc) by applying the inside brakes independently (can be turned off) - and the steering/brake pedal weight is just right. Heel and toe in it is easy.


                          Also... 18" 235s on the front, 265s on the rear... again... factory fitment. Could go a fair bit bigger and I'm sure the newer ones have even bigger rubber.

                          What's the factory tyre size on a falcadore?


                          Still little 225 or 235 skateboard wheels all round?
                          Last edited by thro; 27-12-2012, 07:53 PM.
                          “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=thro;2743903]My beemer (E39 535) has had its issues. All cooling system related, which is a known problem with most later model BMWs as it is all plastic and not suitable long term in the aussie climate. It needs to be replaced every so often or replaced with alloy stuff.QUOTE]

                            Yes correct vehicles that pass 100 000 kms are advised to change some cooling system parts. No big deal if you don't ignore it. Plastic water pump. Other than that discs and pads every 50 000kms and tyres. All my models have been high mileage when traded and been trouble free. No jap or Korean aussie can or will match fit, finish drive and noise from drivelines, trannys, suspension. Same with VW, Skoda, can't speak for Audi or Merc. Don't be fooled by price of parts jap can be as expensive as euro. Face it a new car is good for 150-200 000 kms whatever the make before its gets expensive to maintain. If some even get that far!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              980kg dry
                              handles better than anything this side of a Lotus
                              tyre size to give you enough grip, and enough slide when you want to have fun
                              Japanese reliability > German reliability
                              Battery in boot
                              absolutely stock standard, not much needs to be done
                              For LAMS information and resources - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...thread-156358/
                              For LAMS discussion and to ask questions - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...thread-143289/

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