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Wahoo and the gm grain debate

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  • #31
    I watched this and it was an interesting story... when they talk about financial loss due to losing the Organic stamp... what is the loss? I assume price per tonne of GM is less than organic... is it a HUGE difference?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Shady7/8 View Post
      THIS!
      GM has a place, but let's be ready for it and use it the right way. To feed people, not simply to make money.
      Its nothing to do with feeding the world, it has everything to do with feeding a very hungry corporate. Monsanto doesn't win the most unethical company in the world trophy every year for nothing.
      Its not about progression. Because it is patented, farmers sign contracts that they will let agronomists make decisions for them of how to farm and when to spray etc (farmers just do the work and pay the bills), plus they deliver the grain to a specific place and sell it to a specific buyer that Monsanto decides. In effect, Monsanto controls upstream and downstream choice for farmers so they get to decide who is in their supply chain. The whole idea was borne by Arthur Anderson Consulting in response to Monsanto wanting to control the worlds food supply as a profiteering strategy move when their Roundup was coming off patent. Any benefit does not go to the farmer as shown in Monsanto's addendum to their shareholders report. Pricing is 100% if the benefit gained (in their trials) plus 20-30% of other benefits they valued such as "more time with the family" "peace of mind" etc.
      A chemical company hasn't produced it to use less chemical. The crop still needs chemical as it is resistant to glyphosate (Roundup) and if you spray it with glyphosate the weeds die but the crop doesn't. You can only spray it from the 2-6 leaf stage which is very small so you also need chemicals for weed control later and much stronger chemicals to replace glyphosate the year later. It doesn't give a trait that can't be achieved by non-GM as our weeds are developing resistance to glyphosate without farmers wanting them to.
      Unfortunately though, GM absorbs glyphosate it doesn't repel it like non-GM so our government accepted an increase of glyphosate tolerance in food by hundreds of times. The reason Monsanto isolates a gene out of soil bacteria found in the Roundup factory sludge ponds is because the technique is significantly different enough to get a patent awarded for the crop and all its self replicating progeny.
      So now Monsanto owns 26% of Intergrain (WA's key plant breeding institute dominated by the Ag Dept) and they get to dictate the terms of crop varieties and are promoting GM wheat. What deals have plant breeders done to add a single gene to every variety produced in order to profiteer themselves?
      Next week is part 2 so would be interesting to see what unfolds.
      Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wahoo!! What a ride!"

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      • #33
        http://gmo-food.theglobalmail.org/steve-marsh-bad-seeds

        Interesting read
        PSN- DOOOM666

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        • #34
          I don't see how you could even grow an organic Canola crop.
          (regardless of GM ie 100% chemical free, so just let the slugs wipe it out)

          But there is a $50 difference for non GM,
          Non-GMO canola doesn't use any less or better herbicide, it's just non-GMO.


          The AOF has adopted standards for Non GM Canola and Canola.
          CS01-A – Non GM Canola $486
          CS01 –All Canola, $436


          http://www.australianoilseeds.com/__...0_March_09.pdf
          http://www.awb.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/1...771F5/0/WA.pdf

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          • #35
            Are profit/operating margins so shitty in farming that the $50 difference the farmers involved in this story will get now that their organic crop is 'tainted' will REALLY hurt them? Or is it more so the ETHICS/BELIEFS that they are more hurt over? They did mention their families from generations back had prided themselves on being organic etc.

            Also I'm not aiming to trivialise their loss... more so trying to understand exactly what it is that tore the friendship up - money or beliefs?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by INTJ View Post
              money or beliefs?
              From what I got around 30/70
              PSN- DOOOM666

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              • #37
                Since you quoted me I'm not sure if I was clear.
                GM has it's place when done appropriately; to feed the world. Sadly it is not being done appropriately.

                Originally posted by Wahoo View Post
                Its nothing to do with feeding the world, it has everything to do with feeding a very hungry corporate. Monsanto doesn't win the most unethical company in the world trophy every year for nothing.
                Its not about progression. Because it is patented, farmers sign contracts that they will let agronomists make decisions for them of how to farm and when to spray etc (farmers just do the work and pay the bills), plus they deliver the grain to a specific place and sell it to a specific buyer that Monsanto decides. In effect, Monsanto controls upstream and downstream choice for farmers so they get to decide who is in their supply chain. The whole idea was borne by Arthur Anderson Consulting in response to Monsanto wanting to control the worlds food supply as a profiteering strategy move when their Roundup was coming off patent. Any benefit does not go to the farmer as shown in Monsanto's addendum to their shareholders report. Pricing is 100% if the benefit gained (in their trials) plus 20-30% of other benefits they valued such as "more time with the family" "peace of mind" etc.
                A chemical company hasn't produced it to use less chemical. The crop still needs chemical as it is resistant to glyphosate (Roundup) and if you spray it with glyphosate the weeds die but the crop doesn't. You can only spray it from the 2-6 leaf stage which is very small so you also need chemicals for weed control later and much stronger chemicals to replace glyphosate the year later. It doesn't give a trait that can't be achieved by non-GM as our weeds are developing resistance to glyphosate without farmers wanting them to.
                Unfortunately though, GM absorbs glyphosate it doesn't repel it like non-GM so our government accepted an increase of glyphosate tolerance in food by hundreds of times. The reason Monsanto isolates a gene out of soil bacteria found in the Roundup factory sludge ponds is because the technique is significantly different enough to get a patent awarded for the crop and all its self replicating progeny.
                So now Monsanto owns 26% of Intergrain (WA's key plant breeding institute dominated by the Ag Dept) and they get to dictate the terms of crop varieties and are promoting GM wheat. What deals have plant breeders done to add a single gene to every variety produced in order to profiteer themselves?
                Next week is part 2 so would be interesting to see what unfolds.
                Commander Keen and Shady 7/8 are doing the Kiwi Shitbox rally 2016 as the Dropkick Dropbears- donate here to help us change cancer!


                Originally posted by Martin Luther King Jnr
                One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
                . .

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by INTJ View Post
                  ...Or is it more so the ETHICS/BELIEFS that they are more hurt over? ...
                  Also I'm not aiming to trivialise their loss... more so trying to understand exactly what it is that tore the friendship up - money or beliefs?
                  Its never been personal, Steve was just a pioneer at doing what the government recommended in order to recover economic loss caused by GM contamination.
                  If he wins, GM farmers will not plant and swath their GM canola crops in high risk areas.
                  If he loses, the governments promise that common law will work is wrong and therefore they must adopt another liability regime that does work. Ideally a strict liability regime that makes Monsanto liable for their wandering patented genes.
                  Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wahoo!! What a ride!"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by INTJ View Post
                    Are profit/operating margins so shitty in farming that the $50 difference the farmers involved in this story will get now that their organic crop is 'tainted' will REALLY hurt them? Or is it more so the ETHICS/BELIEFS that they are more hurt over? They did mention their families from generations back had prided themselves on being organic etc.

                    Also I'm not aiming to trivialise their loss... more so trying to understand exactly what it is that tore the friendship up - money or beliefs?
                    This is more the total 'Organic' certification (which is a huge load of bollocks) than the minor price difference between GM/ Non GM.
                    I feel for the Marshes, but the Organics people screwed him,
                    I feel for the Baxters more, they did nothing wrong and the Marshes should have been more up front but that's another story, hopefully part 2 wil cover it.
                    Mick's been painted as the bad guy for too long.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm just a tad confused: what actually passes as GM?

                      What doesn't pass ?

                      Is it like an IVF crop ?
                      Last edited by GsxInShed; 17-03-2015, 05:09 PM.
                      " Imagination is the seed of life..."

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by GSX IN SHED View Post
                        I'm just a tad confused: what actually passes as GM?

                        What doesn't pass ?

                        Is it like an IVF crop ?
                        The seed you purchase to plant.

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                        • #42
                          So.... you purchase Genetically Modified seed ( from Monsanto?)

                          OR.......Of all the seed you have stored/nurtured...And selected over years of trial and error.

                          You choose the strongest / most likely to survive / earliest to harvest and use herbicides/pesticides/chemical fertilisers and treated water.

                          And sell it blithely to the general public,for year after year....and suddenly you have the opportunity to make a larger profit, by reducing herbicides and chemicals. to gain

                          The organic stamp of approval.............

                          What do you do?

                          Hypothetically...of course...?
                          " Imagination is the seed of life..."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Thomas Peel View Post
                            I now only use butter instead of margarine because I don't know what canola oil seed is used, whether it is gm or not. Plus margarine is only one molecule away from plastic.
                            Tp.
                            water...


                            The greatest excitement comes from besting who you were yesterday.

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                            • #44
                              GM is genetically modified where a gene is inserted into the DNA of tens of thousands of genes of the plant. It involves cross-kingdom breeding and normally bacteria with plant but can be human genes to plant etc.
                              The most common is Roundup Ready where the gene is taken from the soil bacteria found in the factory sludge pond where Monsanto makes Roundup as the bacteria are resistant to roundup. This makes the plant resistant to Roundup.
                              The other common one is Bt where the gene is taken from a pesticide and it makes the plant produce the pesticide in the plant so it kills budworm and bollworm in cotton and corn. This explains the "less chemicals" promotion as the plant produces it. Unfortunately you can't wash it out of the food though.
                              GM is pretty limited primarily to crops that avoid a GM label as they are used for either oil or for stock food as consumers don't want them. Pretty limited to soy, cotton, corn and canola and very different to the conventionally modified varieties as it disrupts existing genes in the plant and the process rarely works as numerous mutated varieties are thrown out.
                              Agree it is really sad for both farmers and their communities to have farmer versus farmer but the government recommended it.
                              Ummm... as someone that went to every day of the court case and plan on going next week, Michael Baxter was not really just innocently growing it.
                              He was asked not to grow it on that vulnerable paddock and was asked not to swath it. He immediately grew it there and swathed which was the first time he swathed a canola crop. He claimed he needed it for his weed resistance problems yet a condition of Monsantos license is to get farmers to sign to say they don't have a weed resistance problem. His advisor said if he had known that Steve had asked him not to plant it there he would not have recommended it. Baxters evidence of the zero tolerance being accepted was torn to shreds as zero tolerance is a market reality and not just for Steves organic certification. Farmers should check their own CBH terms and conditions themselves if they don't believe they are guaranteeing a zero tolerance. Really interesting transcripts and evidence to go through as lots more information is there.
                              Lots of misleading information can be disproved and I was impressed that the ABC took so much care wanting concrete evidence for every statement made. Quite a bit different to most media articles, including your article Uncle Stinky. For example it claims I am funded by George Kailis when I am not, he is just a mate.
                              Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wahoo!! What a ride!"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Michael Baxter said intense orchestrated public pre-trial campaigns made him and his

                                http://www.theland.com.au/news/agric...s/2701488.aspx



                                Mr Baxter largely shied away from the media spotlight, eschewing the opportunity to reject accusations made against his family and farming professionalism.

                                “It didn’t have to go the way that it did and end up in court ...”



                                He preferred to leave any tough talking to the lawyers and the judge and when the decision was handed down on May 28 exonerating him, the humble farmer typically displayed little if any fanfare or flamboyance.

                                He spoke briefly to the media on the courthouse steps then shared a few quiet beers later that night with a select band of staunch supporters.

                                Early the next day, he returned to his Kojonup farm to finish his 2014 seeding program - which will again feature GM canola as a key weed control tool to boost his farm’s viability.

                                Speaking to Fairfax Agricultural Media about the protracted ordeal, Mr Baxter said one day down the track, when the media circus has moved on and his feelings of anger subside, the two Kojonup farmers may well become friendly neighbours again.

                                But any renewed bond will be predicated on the Marshes handling disputes in the way Mr Baxter believes the entire drama should have been handled from the start: over a cuppa or a coldie.


                                Between the Dark Green's and the Govt and Corporate propaganda..... there is a human story.

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