How are our soldiers remembered?

[Barfridge]

I just saw this exchange between lee and nero diablo, and it really made me think:

having taken pics of my bike at the hmas sydney memorial at gero, i'm not sure it's fair of me to comment, but after losing my granddad, i agree with davey a little.

it's not as though you were doing anything disrespectful or damaging, but it just doesn't sit quite right with me. can't really put into words why.[/b]

Ok I don't know who you are thats logged onto Lee's account but thats way out of line.

Seriously off topic

Australian Soliders in WWI built a reputation on offending the establishment so in a bizzare way its in the right spirt and what they fought to depfend. I wonder what those who did not return would think of the pedistal that pollies shock jocks and others have put thier memory on.[/b]

So what do you think? Is the almost religious reverance given to the fallen appropriate, or would the young men who set off on the adventure of a lifetime think it is a little over the top?

And how has this changed over time, have the reasons for war become more obscure and political? Has this changed the way soldiers are seen by the public?

[Semi]

I dont think that the fallen soldiers would ever be upset over little things like that. places like the memorial in kings park are there for all to enjoy, as well as to pay respect. There are times for morbid silence and reflection- such as the dawn service on anzac day ( dont get me started on the fucktards that talk etc during the minutes silence). Though i'm not a soldier, if a memorial was erected for me for whatever reason, Id love to see everyone enjoying the use of it- as long as theres noone defacing it etc its all cool to me.

As for the publics view on soldiers- Theres definately a group of people, anti war demonstrators that would have extremely bitter sentiments to soldiers- but i think most people still respect them and the job they do. People think differently on soldiers in WW1/WW2 because they were fighting to defend their country really. Plus the added risk of going to a war with a stupidly high death toll, in comparison with conflicts like iraq, where i think only Private Kovco has been killed, and not even in battle

[House]

This could well rival a certain other recent thread in debate provoking ability...

To contribute though, I think that respect is deserved certainly, but maybe not quite the extreme reverence some have.

I don't beleive that Bunyack taking a photo with his bike at the edge of the memorial was disrespectful (assuming he wheeled it there and wasn't pissing people off).

[lee]

Just a further note to what I said, my granddad actually served on the HMAS sydney, and when I got snaps of my bike parked up near the memorial at gero, I thought he'd like it (he was still alive at that stage), because he always was excited seeing me on the bike.

Just when he passed my opinion changed slightly, and for reasons I can't put my finger on (I know he wouldn't care still), I wouldn't do it again. Can't really explain it.

[Aphex]

WWI & WWII soldiers are the reason for our freedoms today. My grandfather is a WWII vet and after hearing the stories first hand you can hold nothing but respect for them. These soldiers where sent into disgraceful situations they had no idea about, WWI more so than WWII. In WWI our men where used as canon fodder.

Im not an avocate of war but unfortunately, it does have a place in society should we wish to maintain our freedoms. Nuclear disarmament of the US and SU was brought about as a result of the purely of the threat of war, not war itself. Imagine the distruction if either of these superpowers had unleashed the nukes.

The mentality of some of the guys that go into the military leaves much to be desired though. Gung ho killem all. Although I watched in interesting doco on killing. It would appear that only 2% of people are capable of killing in cold blood face to face with their victim.

Lee, it does seem odd but I understand your change in sentiment following your loss. There are particular things like this that Ill no longer do either since the loss of my grandfather.

[Davey]

woah didnt relise my quip had started such controversy.

I was kinda just stirring the pot - I'm sure cracka didn't mean disrespect with his photos, just found it to be a curious place for 'look at my bike' picture backdrop.

[Tex]

you know Apex, after 15 years in the military I think I could count on one hand the amount of guys who have that gung ho mentality of kill them all ! Most professional soldiers don't have that attitude at all, they may when they are 18 and first join, but they quickly lose it.
the place that i did tend to see it more was in Army reserve guys.....sorry if it offends people on here, but there were more of these loose cannons in the reserves, the weekend warriors tag was well earnt. It's a shame that the actions of a few could impact on a large group. The majority of reserves were good people with good intentions.
I also saw the doco on foxtel about killing, and the claims that only 2% of troops can actually kill when they are put in the situation is downright bullshit and insulting, the information that they used to support their claims was so far fetched I couldn't believe they could get away with making a doco on it

On the topic of respecting monuments for fallen troops , respect the place, use the place for pics etc as long as it's not damaged, but saying that I think i'd get pissed off if kids on skateboards were using a monument to stuff around on !

[Mongrel11]

The mentality of some of the guys that go into the military leaves much to be desired though. Gung ho killem all. Although I watched in interesting doco on killing. It would appear that only 2% of people are capable of killing in cold blood face to face with their victim.[/b]

Most people that I have met through my 16 years in defence wouldnt fit into that 2%, Im not even sure Id fit into it unless its a case of me or them. I have found lately, that people are not joining defence to kill these days... its more so having a secure income and the prestige of being a person in uniform "cause chicks dig guys in uniform"... The amount of people I have met lately that think Defence owes them everything and that if theres something that they get told to do by a superior that its a choice they can make if they want to or not. The arrogance of these people not thinking that the chain of command exists anymore is frightening... if the situation comes where they are in the thick of it (Iraq/Afganistan etc) in a real life situation.... lives will be in danger....

Sorry if this comes across as a hijack... Back in WW1 through to lets say 5 years ago, there was honour and comradery... its a dying concept... Yes, I honour the fallen every Anzac day, Rememberance Day, Long Tan Day etc as those people made the sacrifice that my family and I appreciate 100%.

Jarrod

[Gryphen]

Well for a start anybody that has the gung-ho lets killem mentality is usually weeded out during recruiting, then any that slip through get further filtered during recruits.

The military doesn't want killers, they want people who can follow orders, the gung-ho killem types are loose cannons and don't fit within the discipline structure of the services.



To the Cenotaph.

It represents the graves of all those fallen, with special consideration given to those who's bodies were never recovered. Therefore for those Soldiers it is their Grave. It is a place for quiet contemplation of what was given for us. It is a place to honour our dead.

I am not up for desecrating graves in any way shape or form.

Even people spitting around a Cenotaph is disgusting.