the aeroplane conundrum

[The Saint]

I would have read it earlier, but "hotmail sux" as a thread title didn't really draw me in ^_^

This conundrum has been argued on online forums by physics nerds for a while now and I reckon it's been corrupted by people arguing the finer points of friction coefficients, tyre manufacture, ball bearings and 21st century treadmill design.

For my money, the plane won't take off, for the reason given by foolishboy. The plane wings must have enough velocity through the air to generate the requisite lift to overcome the weight of the plane.

If the wheels are spinning freely (or the plane is up on blocks in the hangar, or the pilot has absentmindedly left the handbrake on ) the plane doesn't generate the velocity - and hence the lift - needed to overcome its weight.

And I SUCK at physics.

[Davey]

State the conundrum please.

[Barfridge]

[The Saint]

Hmm OK.

I read it as: "If an aeroplane's velocity relative to the ground (and hence the air) is zero, can it generate enough lift to take off?"

But that's not really a conundrum, because the simple answer is no.

I think that what makes the original conundrum a conundrum is people fretting over the treadmill factor.

[foolishboy]

Oi, can we do a poll on this too please, just so that we can see how many people cant understand the basics of the physics of flight?

[The Saint]

Hehe point taken.

Wouldn't have posted anything but for the fact that Tyson asked for a new thread restating the conundrum.

[foolishboy]

whack it barfridge, whack it good

[TYSON]

you know you want to barfy

[Desmo]

Whack it like a kid in a foodhall Jeff!

[thro]

lift generated by wings.
no airflow over wings = no lift


it's basic fucking physics that your average 12 year old should be able to figure out - the fact that we even have to discuss this lessens my faith in the human race...

[foolishboy]

Yes but Thro, Jedi was the one that posed the question.

Remember that he used araldite to try and join a broken bolt back together that was still stuck in the thread

[thro]

ok, maybe jedi knows something we don't, and we could replace the world's airports with fucking giant treadmills...

[Desmo]

:/ new mods.
Ummmm.
Yeah, ok.

[millsy]

the wings would clip the sides of the treadmill duh!!!

[MikeC]

If you assume that the treadmill causes the plane to be unable to achieve forward motion then the answer is no and the question is dumb.

In the real world however, i mean, if you were to actually construct a massive treadmill, the plane would fly fine (barring any destructive failure of the wheels during take-off).

So everyone's right. Does that cover it?