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  • Are we headed for totalitarian rule?

    10 - 15 years ago we had the left start pushing their ideas and liberal minded people allowed the left, to air and share their views.

    We then entered PC culture, which really is nothing more than freedom of speech and freedom to oppose a view.

    The left have in recent years have really made an attempt to cancel all opposing views. Examples include closing down screenings of "the red pill".

    Protesting and attempting to ban people such as Jordan Peterson. Absurd statements such as "If you are silent, you are implicit in the crime".

    Other examples are twitter/youtube allowing Misandrist to tweet things like "Covid is not killing enough men" whilst cancelling accounts of others who question the left.

    This has led me from being a left leaning, liberal conservative to moving more to the right.

    Are we going to end up with people, rather than being mainly in two centralist camps, being in two extreme left/right camps leading to another round of totalitarian rule?

  • #2
    Aren't we already there?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by INTJ View Post
      Aren't we already there?
      We are well on the way. With the likes of youtube, google and twitter playing politics how can we avoid it?

      Don't people realise that when they become part of "group identity" they lose their right to their own speech/thoughts?

      This in turn is the precursor to the death of free speech. Followed by Tyrannical rule.

      Comment


      • #4
        Only a sith deals in absolutes, so I think you give too much freedom to the true power or those who pull the strings on the 8 billion human meat stock. Realistically there is no way a true democracy of equal voice can exist, as humans are not capable of knowing everything, being rational, being responsible for the greater good of the whole vs personal needs, many of us cant even have any real ability to know more than around 150 people, let alone 8 billion. We know group think, diffusion of responsibility, and other sociocultural psychology factors affect individual choices, so these can and do become compromised voices. So the idea that we can have anarchy, that we can have true free democracy, that we can have leaderless communist utopian dreams is as absurd as the dream of endless growth under capitalism on a finite resource planet. Many dont even understand the definitions of totalitarianism, fascism, authoritarianism, liberty and freedoms, let alone these some of the multitude of factors relating to idea of rule, and society building, growing, and management.

        So ya, we have always been ruled, and oppressed. No matter where you turn, there is no free lunch, and as such everyone has to do some work to get anything done, that need motivation, guidance, education. I say the sum of human rights, global rights should be Speech, food, shelter, education, medicine, access to internet and private rights, and idk decency and privacy, we can do it, but then what, we still need to get off this rock and get more stuff to build more stuff and go more places other than our own solar system. These are the bare facts, we either evolve and move forward or we go extinct. Progress waits for no man after all, and if you can turn the tv on, and see all the riots from all different sources, and no matter the ideology, one thing remains constant, these are still people making choices (being the cop, being a rebel, being a peaceful protester, being an anarchist, being a leader, being a criminal), even with faulty logic people still do. So to let these biomass to just sort of float its own destiny is asking for extinction, and we have not gotten a system right yet. We are on a precipice of a new era people.

        This era is the automation age, we no longer need the 8 billion people biomass to drive capitalism, we can make labour autonomous and we need smart motivated people to use that automation to do more, go further. But monkeys, they are tricky, like cats dont want to do, unless they chose to. So yeah, we have always had a level of freedom given, and playground of laws to exercise those freedoms. Look around the world, we are all functioning on different but similar systems now, same same but different, same same but different corruption and authoritarianism. Australia must be one of the first first world nations to have by law, encryption be problematic and by law our internet data held both by telecoms and gov for years. US spied on the world via NSA and the panama papers, oh boy what joy. I guess money was that freedom that will now be socialised. And as we have seen in every system that next leap has always been collectively. Entire US economy runs on the fed which just prints money, that didnt work, so now we are all thinking about UBI, and that needs mass systemic organisation. Authoritarianism from that, spills into everything fear. But it is the solace of our leaders that we seek logical smart choices for laws and regulation. That needs a big gov and taxes. Or else what? US bloated trickle down economics, which dont really work well as we are now seeing. So I agree we are heading for more authoritarianism, but that always follows some social backlash. Which will be met with a response from our 'leaders'. And I do think there is a global homogeneity which corrects system. After all this is the first time in history we have had such a truely connected global world that isnt solving everything with nukes. Unlike the last century. So there is hope that this, authoritarian shoves are doing the right thing. Like Yin and yen a balance, between liberal freedom, and social cohesion.

        So tldr I think its going to get more oppressive, so that the rich, the powerful, the clans an cabals can organise and figure out how to contain the meat mass, as even in america shit is getting real and i dont think the rich can buy their liberal freedom to oppress via military force. There is only so many police, and private for hire goons to protect their capitol, and there are millions more of everyone else. Here in australia, we are a part, in a strong alliance with this system. Here in australia we are still under the crown. So to even assume we have no authoritarian rule is absurd as we are still legally tied to our mummy UK. And our lords give us freedoms to organise ourselves, to a point. Freedoms that come and go as easily as the wind. We have no tertiary free education, instead we have an option of debt servitude. We have subsidised private schooling, and other sectors, and went the capitol manufacturing and higher education. We were never free, we have just had nice overlords. But things arent going to be so nice if china cuts us off, as US goes into a recession. So you decide which level of organised oppression suits you. I bet its the devil that you know.

        Comment


        • #5
          Fuck that post just melted my tin foil hat.
          can't you get to the point without the dribble.
          FarRider # 159,

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by gus96 View Post
            Fuck that post just melted my tin foil hat.
            can't you get to the point without the dribble.
            He likes the sound of his own voice... or in this case, he likes the look of his own posts. Well... I guess it's good see that at least someone does...

            Comment


            • #7
              Lolololol
              In sterquiliniis invenitur.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by datsikk View Post

                This has led me from being a left leaning, liberal conservative to moving more to the right.
                Dude, the main issue you seem to be struggling with is severe cognitive dissonance

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by gus96 View Post
                  Fuck that post just melted my tin foil hat.
                  can't you get to the point without the dribble.


                  Originally posted by pnork View Post

                  He likes the sound of his own voice... or in this case, he likes the look of his own posts. Well... I guess it's good see that at least someone does...

                  Voice? It was written text?

                  There are two requirements to have a civil discussion.
                  1. Keep to the Topic.
                  2. Do not use ad hominem
                  You failed on both accounts.
                  Originally posted by Skut View Post

                  Dude, the main issue you seem to be struggling with is severe cognitive dissonance

                  Left leaning in that I (still) believe in a social safety net and state run health care.
                  Liberal in that I believe in “ I may disagree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it”
                  Starting to move to the right as this post modern thinking that the left are into is doing my head in and I believe it is a dangerous set of ideas.
                  Originally posted by Lord Augastus View Post
                  Only a sith deals in absolutes, so I think you give too much freedom to the true power or those who pull the strings on the 8 billion human meat stock. Realistically there is no way a true democracy of equal voice can exist, as humans are not capable of knowing everything, being rational, being responsible for the greater good of the whole vs personal needs
                  Originally posted by Lord Augastus View Post
                  We know group think, diffusion of responsibility, and other sociocultural psychology factors affect individual choices, so these can and do become compromised voices.
                  This group think is a dangerous idea. It means that people agree on a topic and then have one voice (which is fine). But what tends to happen is extra “topics” are added, which the majority of that group don’t believe in, but they accept the “necessary evil” and they “look at the big picture”. Soon all these little add ons end up being legislation which affects our lives.

                  Originally posted by Lord Augastus View Post
                  So ya, we have always been ruled, and oppressed. No matter where you turn, there is no free lunch, and as such everyone has to do some work to get anything done, that need motivation, guidance, education. I say the sum of human rights, global rights should be Speech, food, shelter, education, medicine, access to internet and private rights, and idk decency and privacy, we can do it.
                  We were never free, we have just had nice overlords. But things aren’t going to be so nice if china cuts us off, as US goes into a recession. So you decide which level of organised oppression suits you. I bet its the devil that you know.
                  It really depends on what you mean by “oppressed”. A child who does what they are told to do, instead of doing what they want, can by some peoples definition, be oppressed.
                  We can’t live in a place with no rules.
                  I agree with your list of human rights, but free speech was out the door when PC came in.
                  Privacy? Since we spend so much time online and we know this is being tracked plus all the cameras out in the real world, add in phone surveillance and Privacy doesn’t exist.
                  I have concerns about the place we live in, but have greater concerns about the trajectory our society is heading. I do believe its heading toward Totalitarianism. Once you introduce BUI and a cashless society we will be in trouble!
                  Originally posted by Lord Augastus View Post
                  I guess money was that freedom that will now be socialised.
                  So I agree we are heading for more authoritarianism, but that always follows some social backlash. Which will be met with a response from our 'leaders'
                  And this is why BLM isn’t really about BLM. . Its an attempt by the left to redistribute power. Its going to lead to the government creating more rules to “protect” its citizens

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=datsikk;n5244251]



                    I think you'll find it's your own personal Overton Window shifting due to the exposure/influence of a busy commentariat you prefer rather than anything actually happening in broader society. You are throwing around buzzwords like "PC", "Post modern", and nonsense about BLM (redistribute power? whaaaat?) that is straight out of the mouths of demagogues and conservative media. Free speech never went away - you just have a bunch of people whining that they can't say deliberately nasty, unfounded shit and get away with it without critique.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Skut View Post

                      Dude, the main issue you seem to be struggling with is severe cognitive dissonance
                      you just have a bunch of people whining that they can't say deliberately nasty, unfounded shit and get away with it without critique.
                      It must be empowering to be such a tough online bully.
                      Irony much?
                      “How people treat you is their karma; how you respond is yours.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mr Bean View Post
                        It must be empowering to be such a tough online bully.
                        Irony much?
                        Really?
                        If you consider calling out extreme commentators like Bolt, Dean, Devine etc as being whiny as a whipped dog about just about anything they don't agree with using their media platforms bullying, then I'll wear that with pride.

                        My point is that once we start down a social media rabbit hole of political opinion it starts getting fed back and amplified by algorithms. "Oh, you like Jordan Peterson, let me recommend this vid by Paul Joseph Watson" etc etc.

                        If your main view is formed by watching Sky, Fox etc then everyone left of Abbott is a raving socialist. If it's the Socialist Weekly (if there is such a thing) then anyone to the right of Phillip Adams is a raving fascist. Armed with that hammer, everything begins to look like a nail.

                        The real issues that affect us are less to do with a few "PC Warriors" than the influence of the IPA or certain media over government policy. The current world leaders toying with authoritarian rule are the likes of Trump, Erdogan, Bolsonaro etc - all firmly on the right side of politics.

                        Closer to home, we have Dutton green-lighting the Signals Directorate spying on Australian citizens, and he's about as leftist as Mussolini.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The problem begins with the media, at least in USA. They're constantly 'reminding' people that the nation is 'divided', and that everyone with an opinion that isn't far left-leaning is an absolute shitcunt to society, without holding rational discourse/debate to let everyone have their say.

                          Yet I walk outside in my white-man-body and for some God forsaken reason, when I see a black guy, he says "hello" to me without trying to kill me, and I manage to reply with a "hello", without the urge to lynch him. Then I see someone has a car with a "Burnie Sanders 2020" sticker and I don't actually feel compelled to plant a bomb under it, and he doesn't even notice my AR15 tshirt. Then I go to the shops and buy some chicken, and PETA don't actually throw blood on me right then and there, and I see someone with a trolley full of vegan food and I don't bitch-slap him. Then I see a lady walking alone down the road and I don't actually rape her, and she doesn't see me and begin shrieking about my male privilege.

                          It's all a pile of horseshit, but the sad thing is there's a lot of less intelligent, less mature people who actually believe what they're told on TV and social media because it feels good to be part of 'the morally superior' group and to be able to point blame at everyone else but themselves and their own social construct. They're the fools who end up going to these 'peaceful protests' and throwing punches and molotovs because they're so angry about living in what they've been told is their reality, when it's all some dogshit fantasy they've been fed.

                          The concerning thing is I've been watching a documentary on Netflix (USA) called 'Hitlers inner circle' or something, and a lot of it seems to echo the 'left'. They're angry at society, pointing blame at a particular group, blowing shit out of proportion, claiming to be the victim when they're in fact the aggressor, and stirring up misguided public anger. So maybe soon we'll have another Hitler on our hands and I'm sure the media will lap that up and crowds will cheer when 'conservatives', 'right-leaning' people are hanged for their beliefs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Skut View Post

                            You are throwing around buzzwords like "PC", "Post modern", and nonsense about BLM (redistribute power? whaaaat?)
                            Originally posted by Skut View Post
                            Modernism : The last 4-500 years of history. Scientific method began. We began to have progress in knowledge. When people began to understand that higher thinking was not limited to the elite/authority. It led to an expansion of freedom.

                            Post Modernism : The power of reason. A skeptitism about our ability to know the world. There is no truth, only opinions and beliefs.

                            People who believe in Post Modern thinking end up like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2lc8HkOJco

                            Originally posted by Skut View Post
                            Free speech never went away - you just have a bunch of people whining that they can't say deliberately nasty, unfounded shit and get away with it without critique.
                            Saying nasty things and getting away with it? Google and Youtube censor people on the right. (Many rightly so) but they don’t seem to have a problem with those on the left. Such as : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-enough.html

                            Originally posted by Skut View Post
                            being whiny as a whipped dog about just about anything they don't agree with using their media platforms bullying, then I'll wear that with pride.
                            The left are the ones doing the bullying and the oppressing and limiting free speech. Here are some examples.

                            James Damore was sacked for writing this internal memo whilst working at google where he challenged gender quotas : https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...ho-Chamber.pdf

                            Lindsay Shepherd lost her job at a University for showing a Jordan Peterson clip. She was also banned from twitter :
                            https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-twitter-silences-canadian-free-speech-activist-lindsay-shepherd/

                            Chanel Seven attacked a film they hadn’t even seen : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvLsslFEv7k

                            (Thanks to the lefts protests, the film was not shown in Australia)


                            The left tried to get Piers Morgan sacked : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1roM98Dass

                            How is none of the above, examples of oppression against free speech and thus, heading us towards Totalitarianism?
                            Originally posted by Skut View Post

                            The real issues that affect us are less to do with a few "PC Warriors" than the influence of the IPA or certain media over government policy. The current world leaders toying with authoritarian rule are the likes of Trump, Erdogan, Bolsonaro etc - all firmly on the right side of politics.

                            Closer to home, we have Dutton green-lighting the Signals Directorate spying on Australian citizens, and he's about as leftist as Mussolini.
                            Whether it’s the right or the left that takes us there, is not my argument. My argument is that we are heading there and whether it’s the right or left, it will be equally bad.

                            Originally posted by INTJ View Post

                            It's all a pile of horseshit, but the sad thing is there's a lot of less intelligent, less mature people who actually believe what they're told on TV and social media because it feels good to be part of 'the morally superior' group and to be able to point blame at everyone else but themselves and their own social construct. They're the fools who end up going to these 'peaceful protests' and throwing punches and molotovs because they're so angry about living in what they've been told is their reality, when it's all some dogshit fantasy they've been fed.

                            The concerning thing is I've been watching a documentary on Netflix (USA) called 'Hitlers inner circle' or something, and a lot of it seems to echo the 'left'. They're angry at society, pointing blame at a particular group, blowing shit out of proportion, claiming to be the victim when they're in fact the aggressor, and stirring up misguided public anger. So maybe soon we'll have another Hitler on our hands and I'm sure the media will lap that up and crowds will cheer when 'conservatives', 'right-leaning' people are hanged for their beliefs.
                            This is what I see happening. If people can’t have peaceful discussions and learn to agree to disagree then what else is there? Only violence.
                            It seems being the “victim” seems to give people free licence to say whatever one wants and not being held accountable.
                            Last edited by datsikk; 11-08-2020, 05:33 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by INTJ View Post
                              The problem begins with the media, at least in USA. They're constantly 'reminding' people that the nation is 'divided', and that everyone with an opinion that isn't far left-leaning is an absolute shitcunt to society, without holding rational discourse/debate to let everyone have their say.

                              Yet I walk outside in my white-man-body and for some God forsaken reason, when I see a black guy, he says "hello" to me without trying to kill me, and I manage to reply with a "hello", without the urge to lynch him. Then I see someone has a car with a "Burnie Sanders 2020" sticker and I don't actually feel compelled to plant a bomb under it, and he doesn't even notice my AR15 tshirt. Then I go to the shops and buy some chicken, and PETA don't actually throw blood on me right then and there, and I see someone with a trolley full of vegan food and I don't bitch-slap him. Then I see a lady walking alone down the road and I don't actually rape her, and she doesn't see me and begin shrieking about my male privilege.

                              It's all a pile of horseshit, but the sad thing is there's a lot of less intelligent, less mature people who actually believe what they're told on TV and social media because it feels good to be part of 'the morally superior' group and to be able to point blame at everyone else but themselves and their own social construct. They're the fools who end up going to these 'peaceful protests' and throwing punches and molotovs because they're so angry about living in what they've been told is their reality, when it's all some dogshit fantasy they've been fed.

                              The concerning thing is I've been watching a documentary on Netflix (USA) called 'Hitlers inner circle' or something, and a lot of it seems to echo the 'left'. They're angry at society, pointing blame at a particular group, blowing shit out of proportion, claiming to be the victim when they're in fact the aggressor, and stirring up misguided public anger. So maybe soon we'll have another Hitler on our hands and I'm sure the media will lap that up and crowds will cheer when 'conservatives', 'right-leaning' people are hanged for their beliefs.
                              The modus operandi of Fox News in the US & the Murdoch media as a whole is to scare people, create conflict within society, create an "us & them" mindset. This is their business model. It gains them access to the corridors of power, in fact they have become king makers here, the UK & in the US. The organisation is truly evil IMHO. Watch the latest 3 part BBC documentary about Murdoch, it's available on line. I suspect the ABC won't show it because of the Murdoch influence here..

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