Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Are we headed for totalitarian rule?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Skut View Post

    But you INSIST on calling EVERY opinion you disagree with as "left" and you continue to hand-wave away the actions of genuine totalitarian governments as you OBSESS about feminists - so what is it dude? What freedom has been taken from you by them? You admit you were able to watch the Red Pill doco, and yet the part 3 of the Murdock one is suspiciously hard to get hold of (the part about their Australian operations)

    The YT algorithms have been PROVEN to favour a lot of the extreme alt-right crap because it's shouty and generates a lot of traffic and comment, which benefits them as a COMMERCIAL operation (you know, making easy money?)

    The article you posted about violence at a Milo talk - "Some were attacked by the agitators -- who are a part of an anarchist group known as the "Black Bloc" that has been causing problems in Oakland for years, said Dan Mogulof, UC Berkeley spokesman." Did you read that far, or just enough to convince yourself it's this organised "leftist new world order"

    And back to the Polanski issue - I quoted official court findings, but you dismiss it again because "I saw a doco which seemed to clear him..." He fucking PLEADED GUILTY to unlawful sex with a minor! You don't actually give a shit about facts dude, you just want your narrative reinforced. If you need that so badly then I suggest you head over to the YT channels of Molenoux, Rubin, Crowder, Sargon, or even Lauren Southern

    Sorry if I'm coming across as condescending, but I feel you are deliberately ignoring crucial points and demonstrating the very close-mindedness you are railing against and it's becoming frustrating.
    I went thru all my posts, not once did I use the word feminist.

    I again repeat, fascism can come from either RIGHT or left. (My original topic was......are we headed back there? to a world with fascist governments)

    You are missing the point about the example I have given in regards to MIlo and the redpill movie. Its not who prevented/tried to prevent the movie/talk from

    taking place.....its that groups (right/middle/left) of people believe they have a right to cancel such activities. Cancelling debate is not good for democracy in

    my opinion.

    From what I tend to view (I accept confirmation bias and "the algorithm" plays a part)

    I see the cancel culture mainly from the left. I have mainly heard of people from the right being banned.

    As for Polanski, I was not arguing with you. ("I cannot refute the evidence you provided against him") At the time of listening to the clip you provided, I had not read (still haven't) read anything implicating him. Again I say, the argument in the clip you provided was a straw man argument. The speaker was talking mainly about BIGOTS/misogynists being cancelled which to some degree, I agree with. "Cancel culture" is real and is cancelling more than just people who shouldn't be on air.

    Thank you for a list of channels. I have not heard of any of them. I shall look into them.


    I don't know what you mean by "hand-wave away the actions of genuine totalitarian governments" as this topic is about what may happen in the west.

    You are not coming across to me as condescending. You seem to not understand my points (which is not uncommon).

    The fact that we disagree, to a point is good. People can't debate if they agree!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Crim View Post
      Dear INTJ,

      I didn't have to rely on media opinion to form an opinion on Donald Trump, he provided it all by himself with his Twitter tweets, most of whom project a poisonous personality that debases the position of POTUS & his track record as a so called businessman which happens to be appalling!

      Multiple bankruptcies with no recompense for the investors, refusing to disclose his tax returns which likely will be his undoing a-la Al Capone.

      This guy has done more to destroy US society than anyone since Ronald Reagan. Neoliberalism has failed, look it up, Hayek economics, Laffer curve, Thatcher, Milton Friedman etc. has put us where we are now.

      You should pay heed to your family's opinion, I believe that they understand the situation.

      The irony of your post is that the reason that Trump apparently has so much support is exactly because Fox News is the go-to channel for all these under educated, gun toting 'mericans that are looking for a way out of minimum wage, multiple casual jobs that the likes of Trump wants to perpetuate.
      That's cool, we disagree. For what it's worth, bankruptcy is legal in most (or all?) Western countries. And there's no law stating tax returns have to be disclosed by US Presidents. ANTIFA and BLM have done more to ruin US society than Trump ever could. Slavery was a Democrat policy, objected to by Republicans. "At its inception, the Democratic Party was the party of the "common man". It opposed the abolition of slavery." Democrat policy in USA is to keep the poor man poor, convince him he needs welfare, convince him he can't get ahead, tell mothers to leave fathers and raise kids by themselves, split the family, keep everyone on welfare, abandon hope, have them hanging on for handouts for dear life. They do this under the guise of "life is hard, you NEED us to help you". Republican policy is "shut the fuck up and get a fucking job"

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by INTJ View Post

        That's cool, we disagree. For what it's worth, bankruptcy is legal in most (or all?) Western countries. And there's no law stating tax returns have to be disclosed by US Presidents. ANTIFA and BLM have done more to ruin US society than Trump ever could. Slavery was a Democrat policy, objected to by Republicans. "At its inception, the Democratic Party was the party of the "common man". It opposed the abolition of slavery." Democrat policy in USA is to keep the poor man poor, convince him he needs welfare, convince him he can't get ahead, tell mothers to leave fathers and raise kids by themselves, split the family, keep everyone on welfare, abandon hope, have them hanging on for handouts for dear life. They do this under the guise of "life is hard, you NEED us to help you". Republican policy is "shut the fuck up and get a fucking job"
        Are you actually for real or taking the piss? I'm not even going to try and list all the reasons your cult leader is a fail by every measure of human values (honesty, decency, empathy, intelligence "person, woman, man, camera, TV", competence, judgment - how many "best people" has he hired and fired? - fidelity etc etc) since you seem to have a BIZARRE take on reality which sounds like a press release of Tea Party rhetoric x10 and waaaayyyy down the RWNJ rabbit-hole.

        You are actually a cultist spouting dogma that has been inculcated into you without a whiff of critical thought. A "libertarian" you say? Funny how ALL libertarians have benefited from the very social structures and supports they decry and deride once THEY have found their comfortable place and THEN decide everyone else should do without them and/or are a burden on society.

        One of the reasons so many supporters adore this reality TV president is their vicarious pleasure in the way he shits on every convention of office, dismantles every decent policy of a prior president OUT OF SPITE, childishly insults anyone who challenges, sucks up to despots (his idols), never does due diligence, is openly racist and misogynistic, and does so with seeming impunity. Because they wish they had the power to do the same thing, but don't have it (although he certainly has empowered the white supremacists and neo-nazis).

        Try looking past Fox and Breitbart talking points and do some research into what's happening NOW (that old point about Democrats and slavery is OLD and things change, it's called progress)

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by datsikk View Post

          I went thru all my posts, not once did I use the word feminist.

          I again repeat, fascism can come from either RIGHT or left. (My original topic was......are we headed back there? to a world with fascist governments)

          You are missing the point about the example I have given in regards to MIlo and the redpill movie. Its not who prevented/tried to prevent the movie/talk from

          taking place.....its that groups (right/middle/left) of people believe they have a right to cancel such activities. Cancelling debate is not good for democracy in

          my opinion.

          From what I tend to view (I accept confirmation bias and "the algorithm" plays a part)

          I see the cancel culture mainly from the left. I have mainly heard of people from the right being banned.

          As for Polanski, I was not arguing with you. ("I cannot refute the evidence you provided against him") At the time of listening to the clip you provided, I had not read (still haven't) read anything implicating him. Again I say, the argument in the clip you provided was a straw man argument. The speaker was talking mainly about BIGOTS/misogynists being cancelled which to some degree, I agree with. "Cancel culture" is real and is cancelling more than just people who shouldn't be on air.

          Thank you for a list of channels. I have not heard of any of them. I shall look into them.


          I don't know what you mean by "hand-wave away the actions of genuine totalitarian governments" as this topic is about what may happen in the west.

          You are not coming across to me as condescending. You seem to not understand my points (which is not uncommon).

          The fact that we disagree, to a point is good. People can't debate if they agree!
          You again keep missing the point. I have pointed to examples of governments heading down the path of fascism, and all of them are right wing. I could throw in another example of Bolivia, where a progressive indigenous leader was overthrown in a right wing coup (with US support from the sidelines). You keep on conflating social activism and "cancel culture" (and I DON'T agree with cancel culture, but as the video I posted points out, it's not as much of thing as certain commentators make it out to be) with actual totalitarian government interventions.

          Here is the problem; when you are distracted by the rare incidents of social activism (not so rare in the US at the moment as their cops don't seem to know how to stop killing people or violently over-reacting) you stop paying attention to the actions of your actual government and can become politically naive or complacent ("Oh, they're all as bad as each other") which IS a very real tactic of conservative parties (and why the Republicans in the US have been practising voter suppression for decades). Also, scared people are more likely to vote conservatively as fear is processed by the amygdala which leads to the more primitive responses of the limbic system. Scared people also make poor decisions for the same reasons. Now if you're scared of these "bogeyman" activists (and unlike white supremacists, neo-nazis etc are usually amorphous and only unite to champion particular, singular issues that have hit a cultural flashpoint before dispersing once again.)

          It's like conspiracy theories; while a bunch of people flood social media with freako anti-vax, 5G, Q-anon bullshit it distracts from the fact that governments dance to the tune of very obvious "think-tanks" (read lobby groups) such as the IPA here in Aus, and influential media networks with an openly declared agenda of keeping wealth and power flowing in only one direction (which is not towards mugs like you and I)

          Please take those YouTube suggestions with a grain of salt, but they DO highlight my point that right-wing views are far more prevalent and vociferous than progressive or reasonable voices online, about the only overtly progressive channel that springs to mind in this sea of alt-right/anti-SJW goes by the softly spoken, well-researched and explained moniker of "Shaun" edit: another is Three Arrows, and I would suggest you have a look there as a counter to all the hysterical types I had previously mentioned. To save you some time, Stefan Molyneux starts out with something vaguely philosophical/historical and then inevitably concludes that it's all the fault of either womens, leftists, or brown people - or all of them at once. Sagon was mentioned on this forum after the Christchurch massacre for his video imploring everyone to "calm down" about the murder of 50 muslims by a white supremacist, conveniently ignoring all his videos about lesser acts by Islamic extremists where he is screaming for blood and demanding action from the community. But, if you're thorough, and critical minded, you should find this out for yourself.

          I keep banging on about Polanski because despite you saying "I can't refute your evidence" (and it IS evidence, it's been through a hearing nd been recorded as such) you keep going back to "but I saw a doco..." One documentary isn't research, so don't treat it as such.

          I hope you take some of this on board, you certainly don't need to take my word for it if you do some honest, non-partisan digging around on your own from a variety of sources - and fact-check everything with a different source before you start believing it. OK?
          Last edited by Skut; 21-08-2020, 11:06 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Mr INTJ, please see what Skut has posted above, I agree with all he says, rather eloquently I might say.
            You appear to hold some fairly extreme RW views which is ok but there are some issues with your view, IMO.

            I think Skut fairly well covered it.

            I would say that the reference to Trump's tax returns was regarding his time as a businessman, not as POTUS which happens to be irrelevant as you stated.

            The ANTIFA & BLM issues are a symptom of how bad things have become in the US, they are not the cause.

            Historical references to the positions of the Republicans & Democrats are historical & have no relevance now. US society has dramatically changed since that time, particularly in the last 40 years. Reagan set the ball rolling, repeal of the Glass/Stegall Act by Clinton which had been in place since the Depression, this kicked the ball along which led to the GFC.
            BTW, it was the Democrats that initiated fair rights for Afro/Americans in the '60's.

            How bizarre for Trump to refer to "Good Year", a true blue US Company if there ever was one, as Marxists because he saw them as threat.

            It's sad when a claim for fair pay & a good health system is regarded as some sort of threatening Socialism. Personally, I think if the US continues on this path it's doomed.
            Last edited by Crim; 20-08-2020, 08:46 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by INTJ View Post
              Slavery was a Democrat policy, objected to by Republicans. "At its inception, the Democratic Party was the party of the "common man". It opposed the abolition of slavery." Democrat policy in USA is to keep the poor man poor, convince him he needs welfare, convince him he can't get ahead, tell mothers to leave fathers and raise kids by themselves, split the family, keep everyone on welfare, abandon hope, have them hanging on for handouts for dear life. They do this under the guise of "life is hard, you NEED us to help you". Republican policy is "shut the fuck up and get a fucking job"
              the minute you start to reference things that happened in the 1800's to support your current agenda ( whatever view point you are ) you lost the game, i mean how back to you want to go. Its not a constructive argument, Ideas change, people, situations change things progress. Imagine if all the continent of Europe did that, just reference any point in time 200 years, 100 years, 70 years, 50 years... .... it would have crumbled into nothing.

              INTJ I'm what you would call right wing, a capitalist. But "Republican policy is "shut the fuck up and get a fucking job" INTJ please don't lose your compassion, empathy and kindness for people. Health, Money and good times come and go. Everybody needs a hand once in their life, walk a mile in their shoes. I pay a lot of tax, according to the tax department breakdown an awful big chunk of it goes for welfare schemes of which I get absolutely zero. I am proud of that.

              Crim "It's sad when a claim for fair pay & a good health system is regarded as some sort of threatening Socialism. Personally, I think if the US continues on this path it's doomed."

              unfortunately i agree and they wont see it coming.
              I cant help it if your perceptions don't match my reality


              Comment


              • #37
                See.... this is what happens when motorcycling becomes less popular
                Smoke me a kipper...I'll be home in time for breakfast

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Heretic View Post

                  the minute you start to reference things that happened in the 1800's to support your current agenda ( whatever view point you are ) you lost the game, i mean how back to you want to go. Its not a constructive argument, Ideas change, people, situations change things progress. Imagine if all the continent of Europe did that, just reference any point in time 200 years, 100 years, 70 years, 50 years... .... it would have crumbled into nothing.

                  INTJ I'm what you would call right wing, a capitalist. But "Republican policy is "shut the fuck up and get a fucking job" INTJ please don't lose your compassion, empathy and kindness for people. Health, Money and good times come and go. Everybody needs a hand once in their life, walk a mile in their shoes. I pay a lot of tax, according to the tax department breakdown an awful big chunk of it goes for welfare schemes of which I get absolutely zero. I am proud of that.

                  Crim "It's sad when a claim for fair pay & a good health system is regarded as some sort of threatening Socialism. Personally, I think if the US continues on this path it's doomed."

                  unfortunately i agree and they wont see it coming.
                  The confederate flag and war monuments celebrating 1800's soldiers are all hot topics in USA and they're relevant to current arguments, yet slavery of the same era is 'living in the past, dude!'? Maybe you don't quite get the context in which a lot of the shit-fest is coming about? Either way point taken, motorcycle forum.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by INTJ View Post

                    The confederate flag and war monuments celebrating 1800's soldiers are all hot topics in USA and they're relevant to current arguments, yet slavery of the same era is 'living in the past, dude!'? Maybe you don't quite get the context in which a lot of the shit-fest is coming about? Either way point taken, motorcycle forum.
                    The idea that you work in education genuinely disturbs me. Not necessarily because I disagree with your views (as do most of your professional peers it seems by your own admission) - but your basic inability to see the blatant false-equivalency of comparing a party that has far evolved beyond its beginnings, and monuments to slave-traders and war criminals that continue to be a rallying point for white-supremacy.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by INTJ View Post

                      The confederate flag and war monuments celebrating 1800's soldiers are all hot topics in USA and they're relevant to current arguments, yet slavery of the same era is 'living in the past, dude!'? Maybe you don't quite get the context in which a lot of the shit-fest is coming about? Either way point taken, motorcycle forum.
                      This conflation point makes no sense. Those were different times, the world has moved on from the way people thought in the 1800's.You seem to imply that it's acceptable to adopt the attitudes of those times & incorporate them into the modern day. If there are people still wanting to celebrate the attempt to retain slavery, then this is sad & very disturbing.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I think the USA is in danger of heading down that path with the current administrations twisted religious beliefs driving the place.

                        As for the world in general, I think there is a new consciousness/awareness emerging that is an anathema to what we describe as right wing. This scares the shit out of them as does all change that threatens their comfort zone. This is leading to some very conservative people in power who are scarily reminiscent of some old classic sci-fi novels.

                        To quote a modern sci-fi;

                        Edwards : Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
                        Kay : A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
                        They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Crim View Post
                          You seem to imply that it's acceptable to adopt the attitudes of those times
                          What the fuck are you on?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by INTJ View Post

                            What the fuck are you on?
                            Sigh,,, care to re-phrase that?

                            Dude, you may present yourself as a teacher but you have a lot to learn, don't know what personality type you are but you are not an INTJ.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Crim View Post

                              Sigh,,, care to re-phrase that?

                              Dude, you may present yourself as a teacher but you have a lot to learn, don't know what personality type you are but you are not an INTJ.
                              Sadly, I think Mr INTJ is not seeing my posts (in much the same way he is dismissing the views of his family and peers) since blocking me a long time ago because I jokingly called him "Slugger" one time in another discussion, which he considered the height of "online bullying" and threatening despite him proudly packing an AR-15. I may be being unfair, but I think we are seeing exactly the type of personality that leads to the rise of figures like Trump and the illusion of victimhood that is the subject of this thread.

                              Even more sad is the playing out of this mentality with gun-toting vigilantes in response to protests in the US with apparent support of the police, resulting in even more deaths - the sort of thing that is reported in "third world" dictatorships as "pro-government militias". It's insane.
                              Last edited by Skut; 30-08-2020, 11:08 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I suspect that if Trump sees that things are not going his way may start to really adopt the QAnon narrative, he has already hinted at this.

                                The US has form for readily adopting numerous faiths/beliefs, various evangelical, Mormons etc.

                                Wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see another one added to the list.

                                The US neoliberal approach to the economy & government has virtually eliminated the prestige the US has had since the WW2.

                                Poorly informed youths or adults toting AR15's in the street is indeed insane in a so-called first world State, not to mention apparent Police support confirms it.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X