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  • HD riders and in memoriam.

    Just noticed another rider down thread, and thought I would pose my question here rather than there.
    Am I the only one who see's a disproportionately large amount of HD riders dying, especially in single vehicle accidents?
    We obviously see a lot of rider down threads, but more people seem to die on Harley's than on anything else.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Regardless of type, 28.2% of serious accidents are single bikes hitting kerbs and traffic islands and according to the MAIDS data (yes, it's Europe) show cruisers are involved in 5.5% accidents. I don't know about the correlation between those figures, but on face value it would seem not to be the case Desmo. Perhaps it's just reported more?

    D'Art

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    • #3
      I'm not talking just accidents, but fatalities.
      Maybe the proliferation of cruisers is greater in WA/Australia.

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      • #4
        Good point Jim.

        I am not sure whether there is a direct correlation with the demographic of riders returning to bike ownership, after sorting out the kids/mortgage/job/missus etc. However, I know I am always "pressured" by my wife to get a HD...but I am not keen on that sort of style of bike. I make that comment, because there is an image associated with them, and they are the bike of choice for those who are in the above demographic, and returning to the scene. And my missus reckons it would be considered "cool" to be on the back of a HD on West Coast Hwy than on the back of something like the FJR.

        A lot has been written on the suggestion that these people who may have held a licence for many, many years, but have not ridden for (let's say) 20 years. They jump onto a considerably more powerful motorbike than they were ever used to (if they can remember that far), and there has been no competency based re-assessment. IMHO, they are the 'exposed' riders, who think they know it all, but in fact, have probably forgotten more than they can remember.

        I am not sure if this guy was a 1%'er or a Joe Citizen from the Ulysses Group. Interesting to note that we had 2 Ulysees Groups come through town (Leinster) on Wednesday and Thursday. Yep, I saw a ST1300, ST1100, Triumph Rocket but out of all the bikes....80% were HD's. Buggered if I would do a long distance ride (or tour) on a HD.

        In summary....I think there should be a re-assessment process or similar in regard to licence renewal (including cagers). I know this will throw a lot more responsibilities onto the already burgeoning DPI, but you have to admit, there is a loophole there (as far as road safety is concerned), and it is a broad sweeping assumption that someone who has not ridden a bike for 20 years, could still have the same skills as the last day they rode. IMHO...a wrong assumption.
        Originally posted by Viper
        I'm probably fucking something up.
        FOREVER RIDING WITH "DAVO" - FarRider #1

        http://forum.fjr13.org/index.php
        Administrator

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        • #5
          I agree with FJ Steve. They seem to be bought by guys who think they can still ride, when the reality is that they haven't ridden since they were 15-years old on a chook-chaseron their uncle's farm. When I saw the other thread, I thought it was a guy who lives around the corner from me who just bought a HD (until I heard him start it up this morning). His riding skills are appalling.
          "He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice." Albert Einstein

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          • #6
            Originally posted by FJ Steve View Post

            In summary....I think there should be a re-assessment process or similar in regard to licence renewal (including cagers). I know this will throw a lot more responsibilities onto the already burgeoning DPI, but you have to admit, there is a loophole there (as far as road safety is concerned), and it is a broad sweeping assumption that someone who has not ridden a bike for 20 years, could still have the same skills as the last day they rode. IMHO...a wrong assumption.
            Agree, but how would the DPI be able to monitor the use of a bike?? Should we all sit a refresher course every 10 years?

            As for the majority of fatalities been on a HD, I'd have to say that the weight, power and braking of the bike may have a bit to do with that, not saying that the HD is a bad bike.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Crimson View Post
              Agree, but how would the DPI be able to monitor the use of a bike?? Should we all sit a refresher course every 10 years?
              If I knew the answer/solution to that, I wouldn't be in Leinster watching someone flip eggs, or burn water.
              Originally posted by Viper
              I'm probably fucking something up.
              FOREVER RIDING WITH "DAVO" - FarRider #1

              http://forum.fjr13.org/index.php
              Administrator

              Comment


              • #8
                My stats at the moment with mates (RIP) are HD:Jap 3:1, but I dont think it was the make or style of bike in any situation except one and that was an overcooked corner on a HD. Speed, rider attitude, alcohol, drugs, fatigue, and ground clearance when cornering were all a factor in that one also.

                To be honest, make and style of bike makes no difference. Trees. Thats where the blame should lie.
                It has a dual purpose. ~ Tom Smitheringale

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                • #9
                  ^^ not to mention the hippies who crack the shits when we cut them down to save lives.

                  Jimbo, I'd not noticed a big HD vs anything else trend, is anyone collecting stats as they come through (in a community as big as PSB there's probably at least one...)
                  "Once upon a time we would obey in public, but in private we would be cynical; today, we announce cynicism, but in private we obey."

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                  • #10
                    I also noticed this, but figured a thread would be wacked for being inappropriate. But this is a serious problem that needs to be looked at closesly. Yes many of us look down on HD riders as being posing wankers, but at the end of the day, they are still riders that are being counted in our stats by the officials.
                    We will never eleminate crashes and faltalities, but one thing we can do is reduce single vehicle incidents.
                    Due to my age and riding demografic, I don't personally know any born again biking types, so I ask the guys that do. Do these people accknowledge that there is a problem? That their skills might be borderline dangerus? Do they get defensive when the subject is brought up?
                    Can you help with foster care?
                    http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...needed-163289/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roger Explosion View Post
                      Due to my age and riding demografic, I don't personally know any born again biking types, so I ask the guys that do. Do these people accknowledge that there is a problem? That their skills might be borderline dangerus? Do they get defensive when the subject is brought up?
                      Guess Im a born again rider, rode dirt bikes as a kid, got back into it at 40 and now have a Harley.

                      I dont know if its a simple issue of returned riders or the overall case with riders at any age who ride beyond their capabilitys or common sense,
                      although a lot of the Harley riders are far to light on gear when they ride, but i can only speak for myself i ride with all the gear, generally i ride in a reserved way and keep as much distance from the cagers, and make an effort not to try and show off or be an idiot as I see that a big part of accidents, these days Ill ride in any weather as a few years of riding have hopefull given me enough skill and common sense to deal with it,
                      National pride should not be a crime!.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Captain Starfish View Post
                        Jimbo, I'd not noticed a big HD vs anything else trend, is anyone collecting stats as they come through (in a community as big as PSB there's probably at least one...)
                        I have no hard and fast data, it's just what I see, although I may be wrong.
                        With the sportsbike deaths, a lot seem to be rider v car, whereas the HD accidents all seem to be median strip/roundabout/nonexistant corner.
                        There also seems to be (again, no hard data) more HD rider deaths reported than anything else.
                        And I'm sure "born agains" are a large part of that.

                        Originally posted by Roger Explosion View Post
                        many of us look down on HD riders as being posing wankers
                        Speak for yourself champ.

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                        • #13
                          Jim is not wrong in his thinking.

                          It does seem that way and alot of it is what you guys have been saying above.

                          Guys that rode when they were younger, huge gap in time and then decide to buy a bike. And it is due to now they have the cash to afford said bike (not always a harley)

                          I used to see al the time in the US when I was a cop. Most bike crashes were either new riders or older people just getting back into riding after a long time from it.

                          Oh and Roger, thanks for calling me and MADOGA posing wankers.
                          Originally posted by Jamathi
                          I might be a "Racist"
                          Edited for clarity.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Desmogod View Post
                            With the sportsbike deaths, a lot seem to be rider v car, whereas the HD accidents all seem to be median strip/roundabout/nonexistant corner.
                            There also seems to be (again, no hard data) more HD rider deaths reported than anything else.
                            And I'm sure "born agains" are a large part of that.
                            I sort of know where you are with this. As you know, I am a "born again" sportsbike rider. Years of HD riding. There is no way that my sportsbike skills reflect the years of riding experience that I have. My skills on a sportsbike are newb to say the least.

                            Overcooking a roundabout, kerb, corner on a HD is 50% rider 50% physics. Again, no stats to back that up, just experience.

                            A HD (softail frame) riders ass sits lower and forward of the apex of the rear tyre. All of the weight of the bike is slung lower and forward of that. There is little to no weight in a HD cylinders and heads. All of the weight is in the primary and gearbox.

                            On an overcooked corner the rear brake is useless. Not because they are poor calipers, but because there is no downwards pressure on the rubber. On application of the front brake, the underslung weight of the engine is transfered forward and up towards the steering head. Due to the rake angle, this straightens the front wheel, further lightens the back end, and directly forward you go.

                            Powering on and really throwing it into the corner works wonders, but again, the design of the bike can be a trap. The primary cover sticks out on the left hand side, and if you hit that on the road, it levers your back wheel off the road. With low slung pipes on the right hand side, the pipes provide this same levering effect. Quite scary when it happens, and it doesnt take much to do. This can happen in general riding.
                            It has a dual purpose. ~ Tom Smitheringale

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                            • #15
                              I would say it also has something to with the general gear that is worn on a cruiser vs on a sports bike.

                              How many people to you see with open faced helmets on a sports bike vs cruiser? I know on a slow crash i had a while ago if i had of been wearing a open faced helmet i would have fucked my face over rather than a scrap on my arm and a sprained ankle...
                              "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." - Oscar Wilde

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