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  • Brazilian tube shooting

    Mistakes led to tube shooting

    Just an update for all the people interested in the performance of your wonderful police in the shooting of the Brazilian 'bomber'

    Seems that pretty much everything released by the police has suprisingly turned out not to be true. No baggy jackets, no running, no tripping over. More or less guy gets walks on to train, coppers approach him and as he gets up and moves towards the police (as requested) they push him to the seat (not floor, that was another copper) and shoot him in the head quite a few times (and missed 3 times). Oh and it was all caught on a working CCTV camera despite what we were initially told, only the video footage didnt support the police statements so I guess it took a while to surface. Pathetic.

    read it for yourself.

    Makes it a bit harder for the gung ho, shoot first ask questions later crowd to defend the coppers actions now doesnt it?

    moX

  • #2
    Good find mox, the truth will out.



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    • #3
      And of course the government would never release this information, due to 'security' concerns.

      The question is whose security are they protecting? It's definitely not the security of the people, as one of them was shot in the head for no reason. This is classic arse covering by people in power, and its about time something is done about it.
      For LAMS information and resources - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...thread-156358/
      For LAMS discussion and to ask questions - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...thread-143289/

      Comment


      • #4
        What do you mean "your" police?

        Whoever is unjust, let him be unjust still

        Whoever is righteous, let him be righteous still

        Whoever is filthy... let him be filthy still

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        • #5
          "your police" didnt mean anything, I first posted this to a UK busa forum and cut it out for here.

          moX

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          • #6
            It will be interesting to see what the cops say about it.

            Its wierd to see cops on the streets in London with guns, coz they usually don't carry.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Scoundrel@Aug 17 2005, 03:36 PM
              It will be interesting to see what the cops say about it.
              Probably just: "That's what he gets for being a darkie."
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Interesting read !!

                Still not convinced !

                Sure the police made a mistake.....mistakes happen and mistakes sometimes cost lives, but with them believing he was a terrorist would you prefer the mistake was to not over react and destroy yet another train and kill more innocent people ??
                It is a shame as to what has happened, but lets put the whole thing into context.....your a police officer who has just witnessed 57 people killed through a cowardly attack within your own country, you are under the belief that you are following one of these people as they head down into a tube station ? it's a remotley detonated device which means that whilst the subject is alive he is a risk....harsh ....but a fact of life.
                As for shooting in the head !! well would you shoot the guy in the chest if you thought he may of had some sort of body bomb on !!! not really a hard question !! and who cares if they missed three times ! they were 9mm rounds that don't go to far when shot into the side of a train !

                Lets look at a terrorist UNDER REACTION....lebanon 1983 marines fail to react due to poor understandings of rules of engagement and ONE terrorist kills 220 marines !!!
                Now unfortunately this is a WAR on Terror and part of warfare is innocent people being caught up in the crossfire......The Australians in Bali sure as hell didn't ask to be targeted nor did the people in the world trade centre on Sep 11th, Mistakes are made as we are all Human , and yes the police make mistakes ....but when the terrorists attatcked and killed innocent people....they were not making a mistake !! Innocent people were their target !!
                Big difference to police attempting to do the right thing and save lives ! The police officers didn't go to work that day thinking ! Geez I might shot some innocent guy in the head today ! And I assure you that the police officers involved are going through hell right now trying to cope with what they have done !

                It's not hard to defend the police actions at all.......Put yourself in their shoes

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                • #9
                  ^WHS^
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tex@Aug 17 2005, 09:02 AM
                    Interesting read !!

                    Still not convinced !

                    Sure the police made a mistake.....mistakes happen and mistakes sometimes cost lives, but with them believing he was a terrorist would you prefer the mistake was to not over react and destroy yet another train and kill more innocent people ??
                    I am going to go out on a limb and say... yes. I'm probably going to be the only one to express this opinion, but oh well. I would rather they not have reacted & not killed someone who clearly had nothing to do with it. I would rather be free & dead than alive & enslaved.

                    It is a shame as to what has happened, but lets put the whole thing into context.....your a police officer who has just witnessed 57 people killed through a cowardly attack within your own country, you are under the belief that you are following one of these people as they head down into a tube station ? it's a remotley detonated device which means that whilst the subject is alive he is a risk....harsh ....but a fact of life.
                    As for shooting in the head !! well would you shoot the guy in the chest if you thought he may of had some sort of body bomb on !!!* not really a hard question !! and who cares if they missed three times ! they were 9mm rounds that don't go to far when shot into the side of a train !
                    But that's the thing. With a body shot, at least there's a chance if you hit the guy & you're wrong he might live long enough to tell a tale. But this guy was killed first, and questions were asked later. It's all well and good to say "Terrorists this, terrorists that" as many people do (note that I don't mean you in this instance), but the day we start capping innocents because we THINK they might be involved is the day we should just pack up & go home, `cause that's just nuts.

                    Lets look at a terrorist UNDER REACTION....lebanon 1983 marines fail to react due to poor understandings of rules of engagement and ONE terrorist kills 220 marines !!!
                    Now unfortunately this is a WAR on Terror and part of warfare is innocent people being caught up in the crossfire......The Australians in Bali sure as hell didn't ask to be targeted nor did the people in the world trade centre on Sep 11th, Mistakes are made as we are all Human , and yes the police make mistakes ....but when the terrorists attatcked and killed innocent people....they were not making a mistake !! Innocent people were their target !!
                    Big difference to police attempting to do the right thing and save lives ! The police officers didn't go to work that day thinking ! Geez I might shot some innocent guy in the head today ! And I assure you that the police officers involved are going through hell right now trying to cope with what they have done !

                    It's not hard to defend the police actions at all.......Put yourself in their shoes
                    [snapback]148908[/snapback]
                    You make good points, which unfortunately makes it hard for me to refute them. :| The problem is that everything you say is true, terrorists target civilians & kill them. But unfortunately that's happening with us now as well, the police shot & killed a guy who had a family and had nothing to do with it. It's too late for an apology, it's too late for a pardon & for him it's too late to do anything at all.

                    Unfortunately I don't have all the answers, but I do know that this guy's family is probably inconsolable - he was killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time (as were practically every victim of the terrorism acts you mentioned), and the British government doesn't seem to give a shit. They have a ridiculous "head shot on sight" policy, and this is the net result.

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                    • #11
                      It's a part of todays life, and if I was that policeman I would of most likely done the same, you would of been shiting yourself.

                      I'm with Tex on that one as he has had experience in that field.

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                      • #12
                        And that link is gospel?

                        For every website that claims it was legit, there is one that screams "conspiracy"

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                        • #13
                          Number 9 ,
                          You are entittled to your opinion, and thats fair enough , I for one as you know disagree with you on a few issues, I personally would rather see the odd innocent person shot if it meant something like Bali, Sep 11 or London happening again. I head to London in 4 weeks time, I'll have with me my wife and my two sons aged 13yrs and 8mnths, I would rather the message be out there that if you F%&K with the police you will come off second best, it's a message that may send a terrorist group back into hiding whilst they reconsider a way to do their attack , and each day they wait there is a better chance they will be caught ! being Dead isn't being free....I've seen lots of dead people and not one of them looked free to me ! and as for enslaved....well we are far from that, I've seen lawless countrys where life means nothing, if you think shooting someone in an attempt to save innocent people is bad then try living in a country where they shoot people over a family feud from 3 generations ago....and get away with it.....if thats Free ...well you can have it ! I'd prefer to live in a society with rules and laws.

                          Body shots as you said may not always kill , and that is why they shoot heads !! Police officers are not trainned to shoot to wound ! and the only time a police officer uses a weapon it is in order to kill, because he has made the assesment that lethal force is required to mitigate the risk. If you trainned officers to shoot to wound then you would have an out of control situation with police using firearms without a need to. Remember you are asking someone to make a life and death decision within a few seconds, and using a firearm should not even be considered unless killing that person is the only way to ensure the situation is maintained safely. innocents are always shot by accident and they don't have to be a terrorist. but as I said mistakes happen. Remember we have a legal system that asks 12 citizens to decide over a long and lenghty process to decide if someone is guilty, and the system still gets it wrong, The police officer on the street is one man making the same decision in a matter of seconds !

                          i don't think we are targeting innocent people , (if that is what you meant in the 3 paragraph)

                          look I don't for one second think that killing an innocent man is right, but in the context of the situation I think it is an unfortuate mistake...by no means acceptable ! and the police will be working on ways to ensure there is less chance that it happens again.

                          As for the riduculos head shot policy....it's the only way to be safe.

                          It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 !


                          sorry for the long and boring rant guys !

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                          • #14
                            something else to remember is that in thier minds, it was possible he has a bomb on him. not much point in shooting in the chest as it may still leave time for him to detonate the bomb, which of course is what they are trying to prevent.
                            it's a terrible thing to have happen, but theres a lot of terrible things in this world (no doubt i'd sing a different tune if it was my family, but still)
                            i also feel sorry for the officers who shot him, and those who made the call/gathered the intelligence. i can only imagine the guilt you'd carry with that.
                            No amount of genius can overcome a preoccupation to detail.



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                            • #15
                              They fucked up, he got killed, his family got a shitload of money for their story + from the british government. I guess it is just a fine line between being over zealous and having an accidental shooting (like this one) or being to passive and having an incident like the 1st bombings, or bali or twin towers (both times it got assaulted)

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