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2019 MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 discussion thread (Spoilers)

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  • Originally posted by Davidf View Post
    Maybe the motorcycle? Just gels with it for whatever reason. Or maybe dad isn't poking his nose in too much, either way, good to see.
    He wouldn't be the first son of a successful athlete who thrived once they got from under their fathers thumb.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Kristy View Post
      Well, Yamaha's quiet and Ducati, smug. The other manufacturers were adamant there is a problem, hence the appeal. I know that's not unanimous but if they want clarity, they have to fix the loophole (and of course other loopholes that are no doubt in the guidelines). Though in doing so, it may stifle ingenuity. Do they want motogp to be cutting edge tech advancements or the same-old year-in, year-out machines? The ruling found that as the guidelines are written, the part is permissible. As long as they are consistent in their application of said rulings then fair bump, play on?

      Edit: Regarding consistency, I haven't seen the details of what Aprilia presented - it seems it wasn't a prototype but a discussion/presenting plans. Not sure what they presented as the primary purpose - that's the sticking point, as proven by Honda playing games to prove a point.
      That the MSMA writes the rules makes me to believe that the spirit of the rules are then important, much more so than if they were written by a governing body.
      The thing about the cutting edge technology though is that with the far less complicated electronics how cutting edge are the bikes? I've read that a major reason for all the aero is the dumbed down electronics can't efficiently deal with issues that were previously controlled by the bespoke electronics. Aero can't go too insane on a bike, I remember Nakamoto saying that Honda had previously built a bike with excellent aero that was a second or so faster per lap the problem was that after a lap or two the rider was physically exhausted. In his interview about aero Gigi while not always (as most people in his position aren't) a pillar of truth or transperancy makes some good points on the bike aero and it's not difficult to believe he is being quite genuine.
      The thing I don't like about the aero is that if a wing gets knocked off the bike becomes unrideable forcing retirement which sucks for us fans.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Davidf View Post
        I think cutting edge technology in MotoGP could come from useful sources than "aero", which has limited real world usage on the street.

        How about lower weight limits [ materials science ], a little bit more freedom around electronics [ brakes/suspension maybe ], dare I say tyres? Bridgestone vs Michelin anyone....

        Hybrid assistance? Once or twice a lap, press the button, boom another hundred horsepower.

        I'm sure there are other ideas out there.
        I've never been a fan of the "go fast" button. One reason I won't watch F1. Strategy should come from the rider's head, not the press of a magical button, or from your crew via your dash. I am; however, all for choice of tyre manufacturer.

        I guess you can either tighten every single loophole making it very restrictive or you can allow grey areas and manufacturers can employ boffins to examine the guidelines and find grey areas to exploit. The other option is to allow them to go nuts and develop whatever tech they want, but then the gap between Ducati and Honda vs. the others would grow even more. There has to be a balance in there somewhere - maybe that's what's currently in place but just needs a few tweaks. Or maybe they'll just decrease revs

        Originally posted by p4p1 View Post
        What's going on with Remy Gardner? Seems to really have improved this year so far. I hope he keeps it up.
        He did place 5th in Valencia last year. And guessing yes, he and the bike work well together as he was immediately strong in testing.

        Originally posted by p4p1 View Post
        The thing I don't like about the aero is that if a wing gets knocked off the bike becomes unrideable forcing retirement which sucks for us fans.
        Doesn't happen often, although it happened to Bagnaia on debut in Qatar.

        Comment


        • So, on Crutchlow - bike must be stationary at the time lights go out. It's not about whether he's crossed the grid line marking: https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91...enalty-updated.
          Conversely if he had rolled and then stopped it would be up to official discretion. As it is, he was rolling (by whatever means it doesn't matter) so he's got to cop it sweet (not that Cal would ever cop anything sweet ).

          Comment


          • If Cal hadn't cheated he would have won that.

            Onya Jack.
            They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

            Comment


            • Originally posted by n8balls View Post
              Poor decision (by race direction), quite likely cost Cal a podium.

              Although, I do like watching angry Cal
              Cal moved before the lights went out.

              Yes, harsh - but the easy way to avoid that is "don't fucking go before the light goes out".

              Any "judgement call" to let it slide, outside of the physical reality is exactly that, a judgement call that will be brought up whenever anyone else gets pinged for it, and whines that "but cal got off for moving" in the future.

              No.

              Fuck that.

              The evidence is there. He moved prior to the light, he pays the penalty. Its as simple as that. Don't want a penalty? Wait for the fucking light.


              Harsh? Fuck yes. Am i gutted for him? Fuck yes.


              But if you start bending the rules and letting it slide, then it becomes much more of a human judgement call with bias and we don't want that.

              I don't agree with a lot of the dumb shit race direction/FIM/Dorna do, but this was the correct call, IMHO. So long as they apply the same treatment to everyone, i have absolutely zero issue with that call. With the cameras and shit they have there's no reason for this to even be up for discussion really. You either moved before the light or you didn't. And he did.
              “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

              Comment


              • According to the regs, if he had moved and stopped before the lights went out (presumably before crossing the grid line marker), there is scope for discretion.

                As for the "ride through" as outlined in Article 1.19 'Ride Through Procedure':
                "During the race, the rider will be requested to ride through the pit lane.
                Stopping is not permitted. The rider may then rejoin the race."

                So despite the Loop being available for use, it's not in the Regulations so the ride through pit lane stands. Epic dummy spit by Cal, but it looks like the decision was made according to the book, which it should be. Though personally, I think they should update the regs to reflect the new Loop as the ride through pit lane is overkill, especially given there's an alternate option now that is more commensurate with the crime.

                Edit:
                Any rider who anticipates the start will be required to carry out the
                ride through described under article 1.19.

                The motorcycle must be stationary at the time the red lights are
                turned off. Anticipation of the start is defined by the motorcycle moving
                forward at the time the red lights are turned off.

                In the case of a minor movement and subsequent stop whilst the red
                lights are on, Race Direction will be the sole judge of whether an
                advantage has been gained.

                Race Direction will decide if a penalty will be imposed for taking
                advantage by anticipating the start and must communicate the
                penalty to the rider before the end of the fourth lap.

                Comment


                • I’m not talking about the regs.

                  I’m talking about the only way to be 100 percent fair to everyone.
                  “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by p4p1 View Post
                    What's going on with Remy Gardner? Seems to really have improved this year so far. I hope he keeps it up.
                    In the past he was on a tech 3 chassis which was a shopping trolley on 2 wheels. Now he is on a Kalex like the other front runners he is showing his potential.

                    Originally posted by Kristy View Post
                    So despite the Loop being available for use, it's not in the Regulations so the ride through pit lane stands. Epic dummy spit by Cal, but it looks like the decision was made according to the book, which it should be. Though personally, I think they should update the regs to reflect the new Loop as the ride through pit lane is overkill, especially given there's an alternate option now that is more commensurate with the crime.

                    Edit:
                    Looking at it in slow mo, he did jump and so should have been penalised. But if this breach is not deserving of the Fenati loop then what is? I agree, ride thru way to harsh.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by thro View Post
                      I’m not talking about the regs.

                      I’m talking about the only way to be 100 percent fair to everyone.
                      Post was more a follow up to earlier post. But yes, consistent ruling is key. To eradicate any chance for discretion, rather than having the "rolling but then stopping might be ok subject to discretion" entry, it probably should just be, move and you're done.
                      Cal said if it was Marc, Rossi etc. they wouldnt have been pinged. Toys out of the pram much... sorry Cal, you were wrong on this.

                      Originally posted by datsikk View Post
                      In the past he was on a tech 3 chassis which was a shopping trolley on 2 wheels. Now he is on a Kalex like the other front runners he is showing his potential.


                      Looking at it in slow mo, he did jump and so should have been penalised. But if this breach is not deserving of the Fenati loop then what is? I agree, ride thru way to harsh.
                      I looked up Remy earlier thinking it might have been Speed Up (didn't know Tech 3 had their own chassis). But so it appears, Kalex is where it's at - if you're not on one you may as well write your season off.

                      Fenati Loop introduced as a fairness measure for things like "drop a position". Depending upon where the next rider is - 0.1 sec or 10 secs - the penalty varies widely. Also good for repeatedly exceeding track limits. I reckon ride theough pit lane should remain for severe penalties but for most things, it's too severe. And if 1 Loop isn't enough, make it 2 over successive laps. I wonder if it's been written into the regs? Surely it would have to have been.

                      Comment


                      • So what of Mav? Is it the bike? Is it him? Is it his head? The fact he can smash them in practice suggests it's his (early) race form.

                        True to form, Vinales turned his second spot on the grid into rubbish, managed to squeeze into fourth by the end of Lap One then drifted back into a less stressful eighth, where he had to work hard for most of the race until Morbidelli put him out of his misery two laps before the end by ramming him.
                        The commentators observed the “new” Vinales was much like the old Vinales. I agreed, and wished that one day he would be like the old old Vinales.
                        Cue: Regurgitator.

                        https://www.mcnews.com.au/2019-motog...gentina-boris/

                        Edit: #12 was meant to herald a new Maverick. I predict a new line up for Yamaha in 2021.
                        Last edited by Kristy; 02-04-2019, 10:39 PM.

                        Comment


                        • I watched moto2 last night, what a awesome effort by Remy Gardner an Alex Marquez.
                          Really enjoyed the race.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kristy View Post
                            So what of Mav? Is it the bike? Is it him? Is it his head? The fact he can smash them in practice suggests it's his (early) race form.




                            Cue: Regurgitator.

                            https://www.mcnews.com.au/2019-motog...gentina-boris/

                            Edit: #12 was meant to herald a new Maverick. I predict a new line up for Yamaha in 2021.
                            Rossi and Marquez make the most of the bike that is given to them on race day. With Marquez's youth giving him the edge over Rossi. Stoner was the same.

                            Lorenzo and Vinales need the stars to be aligned and everything perfect.

                            It is the difference between great riders and the truly great.

                            Comment


                            • Re maverick

                              That Yamaha really is a second class bike now.

                              Ok in qualifying where it can use its corner speed but it is just simply far too slow in a straight line and not good enough under brakes which makes passing difficult and if you do pass - very difficult to get enough of a gap to avoid the easy pass by a Duc or Honda on the following straight.

                              Rossi’s tactic was entirely predictable last race. It’s the only thing he could do and he’s damn lucky that finish line is so close to the final corner (and not half way down the straight like most). Or he was boned.

                              It’s all very much like the last year they ran 500s with MotoGP.

                              On paper close times. In reality they could get pole. But far too difficult in the race because the heavier 4 stroke could muscle past down the straight then park it in front of the 2 stroke in the corner. Negating the 2 stroke corner speed advantage.

                              The Ducati is currently "the ultimate 4 stroke" in that respect. The Yamaha is very much like a 2 stroke in the way it gets the laptime. Always has been. And that's not good for fighting with point and shoot where the point and shoot guys have a 30 HP advantage and better braking stability. Especially now the Duc now turns "well enough" to be somewhere in the ballpark through the corners.
                              Last edited by thro; 03-04-2019, 09:16 AM.
                              “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                              Comment


                              • I remember an interview with Remy Gardner last year (must have been at PI cause when else would you )
                                Where he was very much looking forward to the new bigger bikes as they suited him better
                                I had the impression he meant his physical size (as well as the power delivery)
                                Maybe its in his head (or mine)
                                Note: this may not be the universe where the above is relevant.

                                Comment

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