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2019 MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 discussion thread (Spoilers)

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  • Lorenzo to WSBK in 2021? Or retirement?
    Pressure will be even greater now that the season has further progressed with no real runs on the board.

    Comment


    • I think retirement :/

      Time's not on his side. He's failed to make a successful transition to two manufacturers, he's a confidence rider (not an adaptive one) who is having trouble finding confidence (and going to WSB will be an even bigger jump), and any teams HE may want, will be chasing younger talent. If he says in MotoGP, he'll be an alsoran - and his ego won't take that well at all.

      It's a real shame.

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      • I'm amazed at how quickly people shit on Lorenzo but jump to the opposite for Rossi.

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        • Both Rossi and Lorenzo are top riders, make no mistake about it (they have been, and still are) but Rossi is more adaptable than Lorenzo as he has evolved as the bikes and the competition have evolved. WRT to Ducati times, Rossi had a pig of a Duc, Lorenzo didn't. (Of course, acknowledging that people have fluoro yellow glasses on when it comes to Rossi and he can do no wrong, so that's part of it).

          Since Lorenzo has been at Honda i've realised the true greats adapt to the bike, not the other way around. He's a great, but not a true great.

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          • Lorenzo, the only rider that has won a WC in the Marc era. Injured for the start of 2019 and now injured again, he hasn't had too long at full fitness on the honda, other honda rider results show that it certainly isn't an easy bike to ride.
            Rossi had the whole tyre benefit thing + a less competitive field.

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            • Originally posted by SomeBloke View Post
              I'm amazed at how quickly people shit on Lorenzo but jump to the opposite for Rossi.
              Certain fans just want Lorenzo to be finished.
              People forget that a mechanical fault with Ducati ruined his season last year and hampered his testing for Honda. He still won 3 races last year.

              Comment


              • I'm not a Rossi fan but it is apparent that he has adapted to numerous bikes throughout his motogp career and changed his riding style to remain competitive.

                Definitely sympathise with Lorenzo's bad luck. He's having a bad run. I have to say I've missed him not being there for the last two races - it made it less fun/interesting 😃

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                • Originally posted by SomeBloke View Post
                  I'm amazed at how quickly people shit on Lorenzo but jump to the opposite for Rossi.
                  I'm not shitting on him. I'm being pragmatic. I was really fuckin' excited to see him at the pointy end, before he destroyed the title contenders.

                  I think the rider cycles are going to get shorter.
                  Perform or GTFO. Fresh meat is knocking on the door.

                  He took 18 months to get a win on the Duc - which was apparently a better bike than the Honda at the time.
                  He's moved to the Honda which is harder to ride (albeit better than last year) - and both hasn't adapted, and been injured.

                  If it takes him 18 months to get another win, regardless of circumstances, Puig will not suffer that shit.
                  He'll get someone else. Even if they got him for pennies on the dollar.

                  Like I said, he's a confidence rider... who has none.
                  And historically, he hasn't had the emotional strength to deal with it.

                  Meanwhile, the rookies keep coming.

                  As for Rossi - I never liked him, but now that he can't buy wins - his ego seems to have shrunk and become a little more, less-hateable...
                  And he out-performs Lorenzo.
                  As much as I'd like to see him retire, can't fault being 3rd? in the championship last year, and always competitive bar the Ducati days.

                  He's undeniably having a shocker this year though. And still better than Lorenzo.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rhino View Post

                    I think the rider cycles are going to get shorter.
                    Perform or GTFO. Fresh meat is knocking on the door.

                    He took 18 months to get a win on the Duc - which was apparently a better bike than the Honda at the time.
                    He's moved to the Honda which is harder to ride (albeit better than last year) - and both hasn't adapted, and been injured.

                    If it takes him 18 months to get another win, regardless of circumstances, Puig will not suffer that shit.
                    He'll get someone else. Even if they got him for pennies on the dollar.

                    Like I said, he's a confidence rider... who has none.
                    And historically, he hasn't had the emotional strength to deal with it.
                    .
                    how many wins did Pedrosa get last year? how many did CC get? and how long was CC on a Honda before winning a race? I disagree about his mental toughness. He has won some close championships and he never dropped his head at Ducati nor at Honda where he was once AGAIN, running at the front.

                    Comment


                    • Pedrosa retired, as realisation came crashing down. He was broken and not competitive. His stock was plunging and he wasn't enjoying it.
                      CC is getting paid what he's worth (and expected to do) and has never been a factory rider.

                      JL has won championships when he's on a bike that gives him the confidence he needs to fight.
                      This is basically my whole point - He needs confidence and struggling to find a bike that will give it to him.

                      When he doesn't have that underneath him, he can't bring the fight.
                      He can't ride around a bike and be competitive.
                      That said, I only really think Casey and Marc could/can.

                      I'd hardly call being at the pointy end ... let's call it 6 times out of 36 "running at the front".

                      Never dropped his head? Aw carm orf it!
                      The kid looked close to tears most of the time he was at Ducati.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by datsikk View Post

                        how many wins did Pedrosa get last year? how many did CC get? and how long was CC on a Honda before winning a race? I disagree about his mental toughness. He has won some close championships and he never dropped his head at Ducati nor at Honda where he was once AGAIN, running at the front into front runners.
                        Fixed.

                        They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

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                        • Surely you cant just write off someone of Lorenzo's calibre after 6 months, Honda have said they wont change the bike whilst MM is winning for him, or anyone else because Honda are sooooooo 100% committed balls deep in to the MM show and its a one man team.

                          IMO Lorenzos ended up there because hes Spanish, to make up the numbers, fillout the pit space allocated to them and so he doesnt turn up to the front of the grid on anything else remotely competitive and actually get in the way by contesting the title.( wild accusation ). And whilst hes crashing and taking out other riders divine wind style they wont give a fuck because they are gonna have the title again this year and more than likely next year too. HRC are there for one reason, to win championships. Goal achieved!

                          Lorenzo should be at Suzuki alongside Rins.
                          I cant help it if your perceptions don't match my reality


                          Comment


                          • I just shake my head when people say how difficult the Honda is....based on what exactly? Crutchlow's comments? Nothing against Cal but as the "best British rider since Barry Sheene" he currently sits 9th in the championship. This is not an aberration, this is his normal position, having finished 7,9,7,8,13 (average 8.8) in the championship for the past 5 years despite having a Factory spec bike.

                            We listen to British commentators during the races, and enjoy the high profile analysis from Brit's David Emmett (Motomatters) and Mat Oxley (Motorsport Magazine) who, understandably, talk him up but when Emmett talks about him as a possible championship contender it flies in the face of facts. "Computer says, no!", the stats just don't support it. I really do wonder if he has the same profile in less English-centric countries?

                            Again, nothing against him but he isn't in the same league as Pedrosa who averaged 3.3 in the championship in the 11 years between his rookie and final seasons, despite a shocking run of injuries, finishing runner up 3 times, and might well have won the championship but for a rogue tyre warmer in 2012. Pedrosa is one of the few people who could regularly challenge/beat Marquez and Stoner on exactly the same bike/team.

                            Is the Honda difficult to ride? Do we hear Marquez complaining? My worthless opinion is that he's getting exactly what he wants, and Honda don't give a rice cracker what Crutchlow thinks back in the pack. "Sorry, Cructhlow-san, bike is proven winner, you proven mid-pack, we no "improve" bike to finish mid-pack!"

                            Lorenzo has just done a Zarco and timed his jump badly. The Ducati was not to his initial liking but he eventually got to know the front end, which is key to his speed. Unfortunately he has traded it in for the Honda just as Honda have shifted focus to the other end of the bike, chasing more power/traction/acceleration. They've made a big jump in that area, but at the cost of a little front end feel. Sucks to be JLo at the moment. But ask Marquez if he'd rather have last years bike or this one and it's pretty obvious which he'd have, it's his feedback that built it.

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                            • It took him over 12 months to get to grips on the Ducati, it's only been half a season so far and he's been injured pretty much the whole time. I reckon he'll learn the bike eventually

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                              • And he never DID get to grips on the Ducati. He had a few wins after 18 months and then fell back to mid-pack.

                                I have never heard Honda say they are making a bike for Marc and the rest be damned. In the past, maybe. Not since Puig AFAIK.
                                It's clear that Puig wants winners. He made that clear with Dani.
                                He wants constructor and team winners.

                                What support has Marc/Honda been getting from ANY of the other riders? Not much!

                                I honestly don't think he'll want to waste any time with Lorenzo if he doesn't perform quickly.
                                Not when the new breed can jump on a bike and wrestle it (like Fabio) without actually knowing what a good bike is.

                                If it keeps taking JL 2 years to get comfortable on anything, he may as well retire, or accept his fate as making up numbers.

                                Might be harsh - but I'm calling it.
                                I don't think we'll see anything magnificent out of him.

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