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2019 MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 discussion thread (Spoilers)

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  • Originally posted by Rhino View Post
    And he never DID get to grips on the Ducati. He had a few wins after 18 months and then fell back to mid-pack.

    Mate, I really don't like Lorenzo, i think he's an arrogant fuck, but you are simply incorrect and rewriting history:

    Lorenzo was leading the Spanish GP at Rd 4 when he Dovi and Pedrosa had that crazy crash. Then went on to win 2 on the trot from Rd 6, just a 3rd of the way into season and from then on was a legitimate contender, runner up at Brno before winning again at the Red Bull Ring. He then stuck it on pole at Misano before crashing out of 2nd place on the penultimate lap while ahead of Marquez. This was followed by his 4th pole of the season at Aragon, where he ejected himself into orbit at the first corner, blaming it on Marquez pushing him wide.

    In the Aragon crash he broke his foot, which forced him to miss the next 4 races (remember his late withdrawal from Phillip Island and Bautista played super-sub) followed by that stupid 2 part race at Valencia which was just a lottery. So to say he "faded" after the wins is just bollocks.

    I have never heard Honda say they are making a bike for Marc and the rest be damned. In the past, maybe. Not since Puig AFAIK.
    It's clear that Puig wants winners. He made that clear with Dani.
    He wants constructor and team winners.

    What, you've got a direct line to Honda? But is that what you'd do, base your development around Crutchlow in 8th/9th and Morbidelli in 15th, rather than Marquez in 1st? Good luck with that.

    Puig has only been there a year, and after Dani fired Puig things were never going to end well for Dani. Puig is just a cunt. Pedrosa had called a press conference where he was going to announce his retirement, but what does Puig do? Gazumps Pedrosa by calling a conference beforehand, forcing Pedrosa to postpone his, and Puig announces Lorenzo is replacing Pedrosa. He didn't give Pedrosa, racing (successfully) with Honda since 2003, the chance to retire on his terms, he deliberately set about making it look like he was fired.

    But the last laugh is on Dani with Puig's "dream" acquisition of Lorenzo turning into a nightmare for all concerned.

    What support has Marc/Honda been getting from ANY of the other riders? Not much!

    Again, what are you basing this on?! Pedrosa provided brilliant backup, every season except his last, which was ruined by a broken wrist and tyres which didn't suit his weight. It was thanks to oompaloompa's Baz and Redding shredding tyres in pre-season that a minimum pressure limit was imposed so Pedrosa didn't have the option of lowering pressures to get heat into them and make 'em work.

    And what support does Marquez need? Honda have won the constructor's championship 7 of the last 8 years. The only exception was Lorenzo's champioship year in 2015. It shouldn't require a lightbulb moment, but apparently it does: win the rider's championship and you are almost certain to win the constructor's too.

    I honestly don't think he'll want to waste any time with Lorenzo if he doesn't perform quickly.
    Not when the new breed can jump on a bike and wrestle it (like Fabio) without actually knowing what a good bike is.

    Quatararo is looking quick but is also on a friendly Yamaha and currently lying 8th in the championship. The new breed hasn't won a race let alone 3 MotoGP championships. The new breed also includes Bagnaia who has either crashed or crashed and remounted in 6 of the 9 rounds so far this season. Morbidelli has one top 5 and 3 DNF's to his name so far in 2019 and underperformed on a Honda last year. Mir was supposedly the next big thing and has yet to really do any bloody thing. Fabio is the only guy showing any real potential so far, this after many questioned why he'd been given a shot, so picking one of the "new breed" to outperform Lorenzo long term is a chook raffle.

    If it keeps taking JL 2 years to get comfortable on anything, he may as well retire, or accept his fate as making up numbers.

    Might be harsh - but I'm calling it.
    I don't think we'll see anything magnificent out of him.
    I don't think i'll be rushing down to the TAB based on your "logic".


    • Any 'promise' Lorenzo had at Ducati was in his second year - and didn't capitalise.
      I don't care so much if he put it on pole. How'd he go in the race?
      Like I said (read through your red mist - I'm getting tired of repeating myself) - he's a good rider on a bike that gives him confidence.
      The rest of his career will depend on finding that again.

      No, I don't have a direct line to Honda. I'm providing comment on what has been publicised.
      Puig wants to cement any success (or lack of perhaps in his view) that Nakamoto had. So he's made drastic changes.
      He's bending over backwards for Lorenzo - you think he won't drop him if after all that if he doesn't end up fighting for wins?

      Putting my comment about Marc not getting support back into context which you conveniently removed, it is both with regards to strong performances by Honda riders for the constructors championship AND from the time Lorenzo got on board (which is the catalyst of the discussion). And despite your assertion that "win the rider's championship and you are almost certain to win the constructor's too." - isn't working in your favour at the moment is it? Ducati are leading with Marc posting 1 DNF, and the remainder top two. So if you want to win the constructors, you need good results from everyone on the Marque - not just your Marc.

      Is Quatararo on a friendly Yamaha? Everyone on a Yamaha would seem to disagree with you.
      Do you have a direct line to Yamaha?

      Granted, Mir hasn't been as quick to the boil as FQ who is a bit of a freak - but I think (haven't checked) his average finish seems to be on the rise and he's finding his feet - on a solid base that is the Suzuki. The blue team has plenty of potential. And IMO those kids are finding their way quicker than Lorenzo.
      Last edited by Rhino; 25-07-2019, 11:16 AM.


      • Lorenzo out for the next 2 races. At this rate he'll keep his seat for 2020 as it would be frowned upon to turf a rider when he really hasn't had a good run due to injury. I'm sure Puig is livid though.

        At least Bradl will score some constructors points for HRC, having already placed higher than Lorenzo.


        • The Yamaha is user friendly. It’s by all accounts the easiest bike to ride. It lacks top speed. It’s not as hard to ride as the Honda and turns easier and better than the Ducati.


          • I'd argue the Suzuki is the easiest bike to ride for the reasons you mentioned.
            But it historically has been the better bike on the grid.

            I thought the Yamaha was just lacking acceleration (traction) according to what we see/hear?
            Surely it's having other problems as well?
            There are "pretty good" riders on all of their bikes but they're still having trouble being competitive with the exceptions being FQ all season - and MV recently.

            If it's so good, shouldn't there corner speed keep them competitive?
            If Rins can do it on a "slow" bike, surely the Yamaha should be able to.

            Maybe it's more nuanced than that ...

            As much as I'm a 93 fan, I'd like to see more fighting.


            • Originally posted by Rhino View Post

              Like I said, he's a confidence rider... who has none.
              And historically, he hasn't had the emotional strength to deal with it.

              Meanwhile, the rookies keep coming.
              The rookies keep coming? Quatro is wrestling a bike to qualify well. You won't win championships doing that. This is why the old heads don't push an uncompetitive bike till they crash. Lorenzo can win another championship given time to adapt himself and the bike.

              Confidence rider? Who TF isn't a confidenece rider? Only Gumbies confidence hasn't suffered as a result of crashes simply because he has hardly/ever? been injured. Once he breaks a few bones, watch him start loosing speed.


              • They've labelled FQ as the next Rossi > Marquez.
                I'd be giving him a little more props than you are given he is on a bike that according to commentary - doesn't work very well, and has knocked up some impressive results.
                I wouldn't be surprised to see him win one this year.

                I know I'm picking some aliens here, but Stoner and Marc are two that instantly come to mind when you talk about not being able to win championships on bikes that you have to wrestle.

                The difference, is when a good rider doesn't have the confidence they need, they still finish well.
                Dovi, Marc, Stoner - "I didn't have the confidence to push, so I settled for the podium"

                When Lorenzo doesn't have confidence, he's never in the camera shot.
                That's the difference.

                Your point about Marc not having any confidence issues is true.
                He also has a riding style that mitigates the potential for injury - and he's been really lucky on a few offs.

                Don't confuse talent with luck though.


                • Agree with Lorenzo not being in camera shot. With Dovi though, if he's having a bad day he's not on the podium, he's 5th, 6th or 7th. Marc is on the podium on an off day and he has far fewer off days than Dovi. That's what maketh the champion and why Dovi isn't a legitimate challenger. But quite frankly, no one is... yet.


                  • True - I may have overstepped with Dovi - but I felt like the list was too short with only Stoner and Marc on it.


                    • Excited as balls for this weekend!


                      • I've got a bit of a Binder Boner.
                        Loved him on the Moto3 RB machine.

                        He's struggling a bit in Moto2 but doing the best he can, and is going to MotoGP next year - unfortunately with the KTM satellite team.
                        I'd love to see him in the factory team with Pedrosa developing the bike for him.
                        Last edited by Rhino; 05-08-2019, 10:35 AM.


                        • I can't bring myself to like a South African.

                          "I got to say the Australian accent and the South African accent aren't that different if I'm honest. The difference is... Close your eyes and picture me: punching a black person. What I'm trying to say South Africans are horrible people." - Jim Jefferies.
                          Trying to think of a wise and sincere signature quote, but the only words that leap to mind are, "TITTY SPRINKLES"


                          • Has to be the only safety car stint that's come close to requiring a pit stop for fuel and fresh rubber... they really should have been driving across the width of the grid to dry it out. Zarco, despite qualifying 3rd, was worse off than Dovi in 4th.

                            Started to wonder if they'd go the WSBK route and rev limit Marquez the Honda Factory team. I don't agree with penalising someone for being head and shoulders above everyone else but wonder if to keep viewers interested, they might do something.


                            • Originally posted by Kristy View Post
                              Has to be the only safety car stint that's come close to requiring a pit stop for fuel and fresh rubber... they really should have been driving across the width of the grid to dry it out. Zarco, despite qualifying 3rd, was worse off than Dovi in 4th.

                              Started to wonder if they'd go the WSBK route and rev limit Marquez the Honda Factory team. I don't agree with penalising someone for being head and shoulders above everyone else but wonder if to keep viewers interested, they might do something.
                              Even if Marquez didn’t disappear it was a still a boring race. There was pretty much no fighting for position. We’ve still had some good races this year so far, but we have been spoilt since 2015.

                              Not really sure what else they could do to hamstring Marquez outside of stacking the deck against him. Control tyres and control electronics have taken away advantages his predecessors had but he is still just as dominant as anyone has been previously.


                              • Yep - pretty boring for entertainment.
                                The only battle was between Marc and Rins in pit lane in Q2 (which was mostly due to Marc being a dick and causing it anyway).

                                Marc in the last two laps of qually on slicks was amazing though.

                                Austria has been owned by Ducati so far.
                                Hopefully there's a good battle.