Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wsbk 2019 (the Bautista show)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wsbk 2019 (the Bautista show)

    So, was pretty sure Bautista deserved a much better ride than he ever managed to get in MotoGP. Unfortunately he got promoted (from 250) to the Suzuki when they were going broke, then a second-rate honda with different forks and brakes to everyone else, then a third rate ducati...

    Anyone think he's going to lose a race?
    Anyone think he's going to take Petrucci's seat in MotoGP if he doesn't start pulling his weight?
    Last edited by thro; 18-04-2019, 12:37 AM.
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

  • #2
    I'm just here waiting for Cal's next interview when Rea or WSBK gets brought up...

    Short of a crash, Bautisa would be likely to go for the clean sweep.

    Comment


    • #3
      Request thread title change to "The Bautista Show (formerly the Rea Show)" as that's what the thread will inevitably be about 😃

      Bautista was impressive when he rode the factory Duc - 4th, so maybe he'll get a shot at a motoGP factory seat. He did actually start getting some consistent top 10s last year.

      While initially seeming like a demotion, it's put the spotlight on him which is a good thing. Has he signed a 1 or 2 year contract?

      It seems the only way to stop the slaughter is to impose manufacturer restrictions but that's to the detriment of the other Ducati riders who aren't doing so well and are much further down the field. Simply put, Bautista is outclassing them - it's not the machinery, it's the quality of the rider. Even if it was the machinery, kudos to any manufacturer who can build a bike far superior to the rest. I'm sure there's many bemoaning the fact WSBK is boring and predictable now - I say don't cut down the tall poppy in pursuit of a closer championship.

      Do they still have that delay on races? 2 days/1 week or something?

      Comment


      • #4
        it's been very upsetting, is it all the rider? is the new V4 really 6seconds better than the ZX10? Mr Japan has developed the bike for decades, a finely tuned piece of performance art surely the corner cutting Italians would never be able to compare? has volkswagen thrown a huge wad of cash at development & skilled engineers in the hopes to catch up & in the process made the fastest bike ever?

        this new world scares me, what next... KTM win MotoGP!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hillz View Post
          it's been very upsetting, is it all the rider? is the new V4 really 6seconds better than the ZX10? Mr Japan has developed the bike for decades, a finely tuned piece of performance art surely the corner cutting Italians would never be able to compare? has volkswagen thrown a huge wad of cash at development & skilled engineers in the hopes to catch up & in the process made the fastest bike ever?

          this new world scares me, what next... KTM win MotoGP!

          I think it's two things
          • the rider standard in MotoGP is extremely high and the top 10-15 in that series are all "plenty good enough to win an SBK championship" given the right equipment and support
          • the new panigale v4 is a monster (it has concessions for higher max revs, etc. as well).


          Both of those things = Bautista (or anyone stepping down from MotoGP) = WSBK is "easy mode" and walks away from the field by 0.75 - 1.5 seconds per lap.

          Don't forget he's not the only one on the new v4 (Chaz is on the other one still i think?), so it's definitely not all the bike.
          Last edited by thro; 09-04-2019, 04:26 PM.
          “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kristy View Post
            While initially seeming like a demotion, it's put the spotlight on him which is a good thing. Has he signed a 1 or 2 year contract?
            Petrucci is on a one year contract. I think Bautista's contract duration in WSBK is irrelevant - if MotoGP factory ducati team really want him next year (or any year) they can buy him out of Aruba.it quite easily.

            And yes, he did do well, especially when he had a run with the factory bike, last year.

            But hey, maybe ducati just leave him in SBK to fly the flag and make the other teams look silly for a while.

            Originally posted by SomeBloke View Post
            Short of a crash, Bautisa would be likely to go for the clean sweep.
            Or a fire...
            “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by thro View Post
              Petrucci is on a one year contract. I think Bautista's contract duration in WSBK is irrelevant - if MotoGP factory ducati team really want him next year (or any year) they can buy him out of Aruba.it quite easily.

              And yes, he did do well, especially when he had a run with the factory bike, last year.

              But hey, maybe ducati just leave him in SBK to fly the flag and make the other teams look silly for a while.
              Figured Duc would release him but also need to take into account that while he is doing exceptional things, it is against, on the whole, lesser opponents than in motogp. Thus, factory Ducati isn't a given. I think his factory stint last year is enough to suggest he would be worth a punt, but Petrucci has also done OK - two 6th places so far. And when Jack's seat isn't coming loose, he came 4th. Likely a tough call for Ducati again.

              Comment


              • #8
                So, apparently Ducati is merely exploiting the rules (Outside of Bautista being in a different class of course).

                There's a max bore size in WSBK(?) and Ducati are on it. The rest are not.

                https://motomatters.com/analysis/201...he_ducati.html

                TLDR, this comment:

                Rules!! The cylinder bore diameter of Ducati's competitors;

                Honda 76mm

                Kawasaki 76mm

                Suzuki 76mm

                Yamaha 79mm

                MV Augusta 79mm

                BMW 80mm

                Ducati's bore is 81mm. High rpm horsepower is dictated by how much air/fuel can be crammed into cylinder's, the bigger the bore, the more valve area, cylinder head port area can be utilised. Ducati is at the maximum allowable bore, therefore it should be at its maximum port area, combined with Desmodronic Valve acuation, which has less frictional losses than a steel spring based valve system, as per the other manufacturers.

                Bigger bore = shorter stroke = easier revs, and bigger valves (more space for them in the bore) = more air = more power.

                Expect the other manufacturers to revise their superbike engines for bigger bore and shorter stroke or not compete. BMW might be able to tweak the S1000RR motor to rev hard enough to make the power next year or whatever, but the rest have too long stroke.



                It's a shame though as a slightly less crazy sized bore will make for a better road bike (better low/mid-range torque). But seems like applicability to the road went out the window with 1000cc sports bikes years ago.

                I'd like to see SBK maybe restrict bore size to 75mm or less. It's meant to be a production road-bike focused series after all?

                Will result in much torquier road bike engines - rather than this ridiculous shit we have today with modern litre bikes needing 80-100km/h in first gear to actually make any decent power/torque. All they've been doing for the past 10 years or so is moving the torque peak higher up in the rev range - and because power is a function of torque vs. RPM, getting more power.

                Tis why things like 99 R1s and K1 gixxers have such a reputation for being torque monsters.... the K1 GSX-R 1000 had a 73mm bore for instance. Much better for mid-range.
                Last edited by thro; 09-04-2019, 05:18 PM.
                “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bigger bore motors tend to have worse efficiency (thermal) and emissions due to poor combustion chamber flow/flame propagation. Benefits are as you put, lower accelerations/forces on components and less frictional losses to ring contact. Better for power.

                  Smaller bores/longer stroke generally have better emissions and thermal efficiency but more friction losses. Better for for torque.


                  IMO Ducati designed a blank sheet race bike and sold enough to the public to go racing. Others sell road bikes and happen to race with them. They, over time, have modified little by little to improve the competitiveness of their 'road bikes' but really they need to start again with a blank sheet.

                  What they should begin to allow is superchargers for low rpm torque. Simple screw units that bypass at higher rpm. best of both worlds and probably best for the public buyer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SomeBloke View Post
                    IMO Ducati designed a blank sheet race bike and sold enough to the public to go racing.
                    Definitely.

                    I think it's an acknowledgement that these bikes are not really aimed at road use any more and as per my post above i think that perhaps WSBK/Dorna need to put some sort of road-bike-friendly limits in place because this sort of thing is just going to end up killing the superbike market just like it killed the 600 market.

                    And if it kills the market the bikes are supposed to come from, guess what happens to WSBK?


                    We already have a prototype race series. We don't need purpose built race bikes for WSBK.


                    2c.


                    Also, all this BS with rpm limits, etc.

                    Just do what every other sane motorsport has done when faced with ever escalating power outputs. Give them inlet restrictors.

                    Doesn't matter how your engine is built or what RPM you make it turn, if you have a given size inlet than you get a maximum of X horsepower worth of air at atmospheric pressure. Work out what the inlet size is for 200hp flow-rate of air at atmospheric pressure and mandate that.

                    Job done. None of this bullshit of estimating rev limits and adjusting up or down based on the phase of the moon or whatever.

                    THEN we end up with a war for the best power curve at 200 hp max output. And that will give us better road bikes.
                    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      superbikes have already become the worst selling bikes, i wouldn't be surprised if we see 5 yearly updates & production runs with special orders needed to get one.. then extinction

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hillz View Post
                        superbikes have already become the worst selling bikes, i wouldn't be surprised if we see 5 yearly updates & production runs with special orders needed to get one.. then extinction
                        2008 - 2019 fireblade chassis/engine says hello
                        “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          yeah, but you know what im getting at.. the brands that stick with it will just reproduce it as stock moves. kind of like when 2 strokes died in owseven kawi & suzi just kept on rolling out the 08 model until it wasnt worth the effort

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sigh: https://www.bikesportnews.com/news/n...uccess-penalty

                            'Success' penalty 'Let's penalise Bautista under the guise of a manufacturer penalty for his individual success as a rider but in doing so, penalise others' penalty

                            With these pseudo manufacturer penalties, I can't see Ducati being content to leave him in WSBK for shits and giggles if motogp is calling. Even if Ducati was killing it the championship over, I still don't agree with the penalty - as long as they're adhering to the required specs they should be allowed to experience the combined success of engineering + rider. But if Ducati was killing it overall rather than having one runaway rider, it would be a less bitter pill to swallow.

                            If this was really the way to equalise riders manufacturers, I guess with their extra revs we should see Honda take their first win next time out.
                            Last edited by Kristy; 11-04-2019, 02:14 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The two years prior to this year the penalties were handed out.
                              Not much press coverage or personal outrage.
                              All of a sudden, “Oh my God! They can’t do that!”
                              The above, who were silent over the last two years all of a sudden find a voice.

                              Hmmmm?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X