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  • Lowsiding

    I lowsided at the advanced ride day at AHG on the weekend, while we were lapping on the track between exercises. Bike is mainly cosmetic and back on the road, and I'm fine. I'd been happy with how I was going up till then, spending a couple of laps getting used to the track, and slowly picking up speed and lean. And then I'm leaning into a corner... and all of a sudden the bike was gone. I didn't register any feeling that anything was different before it went. Just one second banked over and twisting the throttle around the corner, and the next sliding behind my bike and wondering WTF just happened.

    This is the main thing that troubles me. It's definitely affected my confidence, as without some reference point, I'm going to be paranoid for a little while every time I'm leaning the bike left. I'm hoping that perhaps you more experienced guys can shed some light on
    a) what I was doing wrong - I have some leads here already
    b)how to try and avoid this in the future
    I realise it's pretty hard to troubleshoot without having been there or seen what happened. But any advice is appreciated.

    I was on the CBR250, Bridgestone BT45 on the rear, Michelin Pilot Power on the front. Both tyres close to new, and the bike pretty much stock. Suspension was recently redone, but still a little soft.


    It was on what I'll call turn 4 on the short track, if the big South->North straight is the reference, into a sweeping left, hairpin left, long sweeping right, and then my hairpin left.

    I'd been lapping nicely, starting to work the bike a little harder. I was getting my body off the bike a little more effectively, easily on the sweepers, but still not enough on the hairpins, as I was generally hitting the pegs. I'd finally managed to put my knee down on the first hairpin (turn 2), but still hit the pegs as well. Turn 4 was still pegs only.

    The last time I hit it, I had the bike right over. I was still trying to put my body down, but I hit the pegs first. Basically, I felt the pegs hit, I was still turning, and then I was sliding behind the bike.

    My first thought was that perhaps the peg had bitten the road, and unsettled the bike enough to drop it. In all other ways, it'd felt like every other time I'd taken the corner, perhaps with a tiny bit more lean.

    When we got the bike off the road and patched it up (stole a pillion footpeg off a mate to replace my left hander that had broken), I had a bit more of a look over the bike and noticed that the rear tyre was worn all the way to the edge on the left, and the edge looked a little scuffed. So now I'm thinking that perhaps I just ran out of tyre, and when there was nothing left, it let go.

    When I got back out there, I did a few more laps of the track. The two things I noticed were
    1) I had tried to take the corner sharper than I needed to. I was pulling it tight all the way, trying to exit on the inside, where I should have cut outside so I could set up for the next left hander.
    2) The corner has a slight positive camber. I now think that this might have contributed, as it allows me to lean the bike over even further, which may have been my undoing.


    Anything that stands out immediately? I realise I should have my knees down instead of the pegs, but they're pretty low on the CBR and hit early. It's something I was still working on and was getting better at.

    The pegs generally hit a fair way before the tyres run out (still had decent strips on the road when the pegs were hitting). But is that the only indication I'll get that the bike's over too far? I felt like there was absolutely 0 feedback between a little scrape and totally letting go.

    The crash has of course done nothing to dissuade me, and after having been on the track for the first time, I absolutely cannot wait for my first Trackdayz next month. I just hope I can figure things out a little and get a little confidence back, and know how to read the limits a bit better, for next time.
    Insert witty comment here

  • #2
    Originally posted by Wilson View Post
    I felt like there was absolutely 0 feedback between a little scrape and totally letting go.
    if the rate at which you exceed the limit of lean angle is greater than your ability to sense and correct a slide, the first you will know about it is that you are sliding on the tarmac
    Originally posted by Bendito
    If we get to a stop and we are missing a dozen bikes and you are last, it was your fault. Don't be that guy. No one likes that guy.

    Comment


    • #3
      CBR pegs arent that low mate, you should really be hanging off the bike enough to stop the pegs hitting. When I was riding my CBR at AHG I had my knee down on nearly every corner but didnt hit my pegs once. It does sound like you hit the peg, unloaded some suspension and lost grip due to that.
      If cleanliness is next to godliness, why was jesus a dirty sandal-wearing beardo?

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds like you touched the peg down hard enough to unload your tyres as a result.

        Need to get your body off the bike more to buy yourself more clearance until the pegs touch. Watch some body positioning videos, and more importantly, discuss your body positioning with the coaches at your next trackday.

        Your description sounds exactly like what happened to me at Collie on my GPX - leaned in as usual, dragged knee (not the cause, as this had been working fine for the previous 2 sessions), then suddenly found myself sliding down the track. Looking at the bike afterward, I think I touched the centrestand down and unloaded the tyres, because it was solid as a rock one moment, and then gone the next. Tyres still had more lean to go too (Pirelli Sport Demons).

        Comment


        • #5
          bugger, sorry to hear.

          With pegs touching down you quite probabily unloaded the rear tyre, which will easily cause that kind of crash. I'm guessing the scuffing of the tyre was from when it was sliding along the ground.

          But you're already doing the most important thing: trying to figure out where you went wrong, and how to stop it happening next time
          For LAMS information and resources - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...thread-156358/
          For LAMS discussion and to ask questions - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...thread-143289/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wilson View Post
            When we got the bike off the road and patched it up (stole a pillion footpeg off a mate to replace my left hander that had broken), I had a bit more of a look over the bike and noticed that the rear tyre was worn all the way to the edge on the left, and the edge looked a little scuffed. So now I'm thinking that perhaps I just ran out of tyre, and when there was nothing left, it let go.

            ...

            Anything that stands out immediately? I realise I should have my knees down instead of the pegs, but they're pretty low on the CBR and hit early. It's something I was still working on and was getting better at.
            I would say that you've come pretty close to hitting the nail on the head.

            Edit: beaten by half of PSB. So yeah, WTS...
            Originally posted by Ferris
            I love how PSB has turned into "Dear Martha"

            Figure shit out yourselves, retards.

            Comment


            • #7
              the rear tyre was worn all the way to the edge on the left, and the edge looked a little scuffed. So now I'm thinking that perhaps I just ran out of tyre
              ummm

              the tyre is going to be scuffed past the edge from the lowside...
              Originally posted by Bendito
              If we get to a stop and we are missing a dozen bikes and you are last, it was your fault. Don't be that guy. No one likes that guy.

              Comment


              • #8
                i think your biggest mistake was having your pegs touching down and not doing enough to correct that. you probably didnt realise how much pegs scraping can effect the bike, and you probably should have changed something quicker. (hindsight is easy though)
                If cleanliness is next to godliness, why was jesus a dirty sandal-wearing beardo?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wilson View Post
                  Anything that stands out immediately?

                  I had a bit more of a look over the bike and noticed that the rear tyre was worn all the way to the edge on the left, and the edge looked a little scuffed. So now I'm thinking that perhaps I just ran out of tyre, and when there was nothing left, it let go.
                  I'm gonna say you are on the money here. When i almost had a big highside at barbs this was my problem. I wasn't getting my body off the bike enough so i ran out of tyre and the bike just slid all over the place.

                  Simply put if you don't get off the bike enough in order to keep the bike up straight you will get to a point where you run out the tyre contact and the bike will slip out from under you.

                  You really need to exegerate how much you sit off the bike, if there are any pictures of the day then you'll be able to look and see your body positioning.
                  Riding for Cameron Elliott #52
                  1985 - 2009

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What Semi and Barfy said. It happened to one of the guys at Wanneroo on his 250. Hit the pegs, unloaded the front and lowsided...I doubt you ran out of tyre...
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      BTW mate, those tyres and crappy CBR suspension really don't help your feel at all. When i lowsided at AHG (similar situation), I got no feedback at all either.
                      If cleanliness is next to godliness, why was jesus a dirty sandal-wearing beardo?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stephan View Post
                        What Semi and Barfy said. It happened to one of the guys at Wanneroo on his 250. Hit the pegs, unloaded the front and lowsided...I doubt you ran out of tyre...
                        Could've done. Those BT45s have very little lean angle on them
                        If cleanliness is next to godliness, why was jesus a dirty sandal-wearing beardo?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stephan View Post
                          What Semi and Barfy said. It happened to one of the guys at Wanneroo on his 250. Hit the pegs, unloaded the front and lowsided...I doubt you ran out of tyre...
                          Isn't that hard to do if you are getting a lot of angle and your body positioning is all wrong...

                          Here is me running out of tyre at Turn 4 at barbs...because my body positioning is all wrong...left side of my tyre was shreded up past the edge.

                          Riding for Cameron Elliott #52
                          1985 - 2009

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            is that blackie from the rear tyre? awesome
                            Originally posted by Bendito
                            If we get to a stop and we are missing a dozen bikes and you are last, it was your fault. Don't be that guy. No one likes that guy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...tioning-67670/

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