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  • The esses......?

    I'm slow through the esses at Barbs. Apparently I'm straight-lining the esses too much. I need to hold turn 2 for longer before lining up for turn 3.

    Just wondering what markers or reference points other riders use to gauge when it's the end of turn 2 and the start of turn 3? I know I'm apexing at the beginning of the ripple strip at turn 3, when I should be aiming for the middle to end of it, right?
    RR #137

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  • #2
    Get the chance to walk the track...

    You will be surprised what you will see....


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    • #3
      What Jules said - and look at the worn (rubberised) line through the esses.

      Do another racecraft if you can and get one of the instructors to let you follow through the esses - bit difficult as they not going their race speed which screws up the flow a bit.

      If you got Google earth have a look at the pic of Barbs and you will see a thin black line going through the esses this is the usual race line - if you don't then I/somone can post a screen shot. You should be accelerating all the way to at least the ripple strip in the last corner before the left.

      see also this thread - http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...nes-map-68016/

      PS: take a look at Barbagallo on bike vids on here and YouTube.
      Last edited by Hostilemonk; 03-09-2009, 11:10 AM.
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      • #4
        thanks guys, that helps
        RR #137

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        • #5
          Remember that as your speed increases all your tipping and braking points will change.
          As for the set up for turn 3 try a one count from where you are currently tipping in. That is where you normaly change direction from left to right count one in your head before doing so. A bit crude I know but it worked for me when I started racing.
          RR VRT #100
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          A 1K throttle is like a hot blond, you really want to hit it but you are afraid of the consequences :black eye:

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          • #6
            The line into one corner will be dictated by the line outta the previous one when they are close together.

            The line we coach is keep the exit of turn one fairly late, flick across to two & cos of the late exit from one you can now late apex two, when you flick across to three you have a straighter line through to four due to the late apex on two. Best way to use this info is to draw it out on a map of Barbs.

            At race pace on my 600 I'm flat out in 3rd then up to 4th until the lefthander, back off just after three to set my corner entry speed for the lefthander, then pitch it in.

            Remember, the faster you go the more inertia you have to overcome to change direction, so the rider inputs need to get more precise & a little more forceful. Good suspension setup will make this easier to cope with.
            .. and thats Racer # 193 to y'all; my fabulous sponsors (who all do good shit) are: Graeme Fleming IT Consultants, Vision Image, Pacific Safety Wear, Excess Power Equipment, Pro Photo Booth

            .. and according to Sean'o: 'get the Kwaka (never thought i would say that!)'

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            • #7
              I like the ''pin it and close your eyes'' advice I was once told
              Originally posted by Red_is_Best
              hahah I hate it when they do that and you make some noises like you had it done just last year, then they give you that look, like you are a bad vagina owner and you should take better care of it!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by robwas View Post
                As for the set up for turn 3 try a one count from where you are currently tipping in. That is where you normaly change direction from left to right count one in your head before doing so. A bit crude I know but it worked for me when I started racing.
                ha ha....I will try ^^^^this.....

                Originally posted by Fastgirl View Post
                I like the ''pin it and close your eyes'' advice I was once told
                then ^^^^this

                thanks everyone
                RR #137

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                • #9
                  Wjhere are you in the rev range Mel?
                  If your revs are in the higher end, hit the gas hard once your comfortable to do so, of course you'll need to power on earlier in races to get an edge outa turn 1. Use your trackdayz to find a good point to really gas it up.

                  What gear are you in at turn 1 and do you upshift before the right hand in the esses?
                  If your revs are high outa turn 1 of course you'll be changing up before the right of the esses. I ask this because I can't quite hear a gear change when you ride through here Mel.

                  Also standing on the outside and listening to other riders at this section also helps ie: where they get on the power, gear changes, tip in points. Spent a lot of time taking pics through here and its one of my stronger points on the track. Just my 2 cents mate.
                  07 MV F41000R
                  09 Blazing orange Speed Triple
                  07 CBR 600RR trackbike
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ozboy View Post
                    Wjhere are you in the rev range Mel?
                    If your revs are in the higher end, hit the gas hard once your comfortable to do so, of course you'll need to power on earlier in races to get an edge outa turn 1. Use your trackdayz to find a good point to really gas it up.

                    What gear are you in at turn 1 and do you upshift before the right hand in the esses?
                    If your revs are high outa turn 1 of course you'll be changing up before the right of the esses. I ask this because I can't quite hear a gear change when you ride through here Mel.

                    Also standing on the outside and listening to other riders at this section also helps ie: where they get on the power, gear changes, tip in points. Spent a lot of time taking pics through here and its one of my stronger points on the track. Just my 2 cents mate.

                    They are more than 2 cents Stirls is really fast through the esses. I was told to twist my right wrist more. And surprisingly it worked. Instead of concentrating on lines at the minute just see what happens when you open the gas more.
                    (226): Forecast for tonight is alcohol, low standards and poor decisions.

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                    • #11
                      Very observant of you! You are right that I don't change gear through the esses. I'm in 3rd for turn 1, mid range revs coming out (in powerband) then just starting to get comfortable to power on through turn 2 and turn 3, back off a little before turn 4, then power on for turn 4. I'm still in 3rd gear as I found that if I change into 4th through the esses but then back off a bit for T4 then I don't have as much power (does this mean I just need to go faster faster faster...), and if I drop out of the power range I have nothing. But maybe since I'm going a bit quicker now I should try changing to 4th. Does it sound like I'm revving hell out of my bike? I have heaps of power if I stay in 3rd all the way to skyline, but I should try 4th and see how much power I have. I'm also finding that with T7 I had my gearing all set, but now that I'm going quicker I'm in between gears - go to 3rd and revving high but power out and change gear on exit, or do T7 in 4th but then have to clutch it to get enough power on exit. Guess I need to just get a lot quicker all at once!

                      Thanks Stirls, and I'm interested to know your thoughts on whether I need to go up a gear through the esses or just get the confidence to power on more.

                      Originally posted by Ozboy View Post
                      Wjhere are you in the rev range Mel?
                      If your revs are in the higher end, hit the gas hard once your comfortable to do so, of course you'll need to power on earlier in races to get an edge outa turn 1. Use your trackdayz to find a good point to really gas it up.

                      What gear are you in at turn 1 and do you upshift before the right hand in the esses?
                      If your revs are high outa turn 1 of course you'll be changing up before the right of the esses. I ask this because I can't quite hear a gear change when you ride through here Mel.

                      Also standing on the outside and listening to other riders at this section also helps ie: where they get on the power, gear changes, tip in points. Spent a lot of time taking pics through here and its one of my stronger points on the track. Just my 2 cents mate.
                      RR #137

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by janedoe View Post
                        I have heaps of power if I stay in 3rd all the way to (?) skyline, but I should try 4th and see how much power I have.
                        These comments are made with the acknowledgement that I do not know your power band or the current speed you hit down the straight or the revs you get at your current top speed. Nor do I know the performance cababilities of your bike.

                        You may find a gearing change may help?
                        Are you running out of revs (maxing out) down the straight before braking into T7?
                        • Yes - raise gearing - then will raise third so can hold it longer
                        • No - lower gearing till have a few hundred revs left - will lower 3rd and 4th so can go into 4th earlier and may be better for T4 (the left)

                        Try to have it so you have a few 100 revs left before the braking into T7 (ball park can be about 3 to 4% left to redline - EG red line = 12,000 then 360 to 480 rpm below redline at brake point. If you slip stream another bike then you may need more % spare.

                        Note lower gearing reduces the difference in ratio between all gears, rasing raises it. Depending on what you change you will need to change the wheelbase, and maybe the chain.

                        Unfortunately gearingcommander.com does not have the RGV250 data so you can't play with it to see what the changes will mean in revs*gear*speed. So I've modified a spreadsheet that will give you three options in gearing - the RGV250 data is from the web and may be for a different model and is in the 'pink' cells. Check with your manual for the data in the pink cells and replace if different. It provides tables and a graph of speed*revs of three gearing options which you can change - the three I've entered are 14/43 - 14/44 - 14/45 - you can change these if you want as well as all the other data including tyre sizes and it will calculate the differences in speed*revs automatically.

                        If you want to download it you will need excel spreadsheet or compatible.

                        Click to download (anyone else can DL it too if they want - the original is available on the web anyway - i just moded it a bit)
                        Download spreadsheet

                        any probs yell -
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fastgirl View Post
                          I like the ''pin it and close your eyes'' advice I was once told
                          i tried this at 7....... it didnt work

                          HH

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fastgirl View Post
                            I like the ''pin it and close your eyes'' advice I was once told
                            By Yoda?
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Moorby View Post
                              They are more than 2 cents Stirls is really fast through the esses. I was told to twist my right wrist more. And surprisingly it worked. Instead of concentrating on lines at the minute just see what happens when you open the gas more.
                              Thanks Moorbs, you is da best . OK, deflating the head now.

                              As turn 2 is not taken at a heart wrenching lean angle, full throttle can be attained all the way to the right of the esses. BUT ease into it, we'd hate to see you highside as you crest the top of the right hander (turn3).
                              Watching the A graders, they are still on the power at the top of the right, but please exercise a little caution for your own sake Mel.

                              If you can hold 3rd all the way to skyline, you're one gear change better off than most other riders.

                              BTW its great to see how much speed you are gettting through turn 1.

                              PS. Are you braking into the left hander? And as far as revving out, it sounds sweet to me, maybe check your revs when you have time on a trackday. My advice would be to use all of 3rd gears rev range before changing to 4th gear. You'd want to be making sure you aren't changing into 4th after the tip in point for turn 3. My change point is the apex of turn 2 or there abouts.
                              07 MV F41000R
                              09 Blazing orange Speed Triple
                              07 CBR 600RR trackbike
                              sigpic http://www.ozspeedphotography.com/

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